The great lakes are warm!

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So, due to this crazy heat wave, the great lakes are all pretty warm (with the exception of Superior). This of course means any thermal power plants that is using these bodies of water for cooling are going to be impacted. Ontario has three nuclear power plants that use the great lakes as their cooling source: 1. Bruce Nuclear, the world's largest NPP at 6,430MW (presently) and consists of 8 units spread over two packs of 4, sites A and B. It is located on the shores of Lake Huron. 2. Darlington Nuclear, a single 4-pack of 3,512MW located on Lake Ontario 3. Pickering Nuclear, two 4-packs, but two units are shuttered, so 6x units totalling 3,100MW located on Lake Ontario Lake Ontario is of course downstream from the other lakes, and also significantly smaller than Huron. This appears to be having an impact on output: [Linked Image] [Linked Image] If we look at Darlington units 1 and 2, these are 878MW nominal units. Contrast those to Bruce B unit 7 at 822MW and we can see how much of a difference lake temperature can have on output. Pickering output is also down, and proportionally, even moreso than Darlington, for the same reason. Overall, Darlington output is down 167MW right now, which isn't a lot in the big scheme of things, but still worth mentioning. I've never seen a unit at Bruce produce more than a unit at Darlington, so this morning, observing just that, was a first for me. I refer to Bruce Unit 7 as a rock star, because it consistently produces much higher than nameplate. But it is obvious that Lake Huron temperatures and larger sink capacity have a decided advantage when conditions are as they are now. For those interested in why Pickering output would be more impacted than Darlington, the inlet/outlet arrangements at all three plants, which I've mentioned in a previous thread, are different. Pickering: Its inlets are directly on the front of the plant, outlets are on the side. Bruce A/B: Its inlets are offshore (conduit that runs along the bottom for each 4-pack out into the lake), outlets are at the shore Darlington: Its inlet is roughly 1km offshore similar to Bruce, outlet diffuser is also offshore, run at an angle and distanced downstream from the inlet So Pickering would be ingesting the warmest water of the group (and can also be impacted by algae blooms) and Darlington and Bruce are simply limited by overall lake temperatures. Current temps offshore from Toronto are 25.5C, whereas Huron is 17C near Bruce. For those wondering about the absent units: - Bruce 1 just set a site record of 693 days continuous operation and went down for what appears to be an unplanned maintenance outage - Bruce 6 is offline for the next two years for refurbishment. - Pickering 8 is down for a scheduled maintenance outage and I expect will be back soon. Darlington 1 is currently well on its way to beat the world operation record of 940 days, it hit 895 days yesterday.
 
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Originally Posted by Kestas
These are likely surface temperatures. Go down a bit and it'll be much colder.
Yes, they are surface temperatures, as noted in the map.
 
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Originally Posted by wemay
Hopefully those temps don't spark Algae blooms. We just recorded the warmest JUNE on record for Miami.
They probably will, they've done so in the past, which can be a pain for Pickering.
 
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If the lakes go into winter warmer it will take longer for them to freeze over, if they freeze over at all, and while they are not frozen they will put more moisture into the atmosphere which SHOULD result in more rain when it is not cold enough to snow, and more snow when it is cold enough, until the lakes freeze over.
 
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Lake effect snows will be something to see (ON TV, from my warm living room) . Get a new roof shovel. Tune the snowblowr. Rod
 
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I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
 
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Originally Posted by JimPghPA
If the lakes go into winter warmer it will take longer for them to freeze over, if they freeze over at all, and while they are not frozen they will put more moisture into the atmosphere which SHOULD result in more rain when it is not cold enough to snow, and more snow when it is cold enough, until the lakes freeze over.
There are more factors involved than just warmer water temperature and lake effect snow. Cleveland went into winter with a very warm lake. It never froze this past winter. The winds across the lake were never in line from the right direction and speed to produce lake effect snow and we received less than half of what is a normal seasonal snowfall. Lake effect rain happens less often than lake effect snow.
 
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Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
 
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Just a few years ago they nearly all froze over completely. Lake Michigan went from near record low levels to near record high levels in seven years. It's been an interesting few years.
 
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
Only the naive believe what the government tells them. Don't know what point you were trying to make in the first place? mad
 
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Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
Only the naive believe what the government tells them.
I trust you can point us to a more reliable source of such information?
 
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Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
Only the naive believe what the government tells them. Don't know what point you were trying to make in the first place? mad
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
Only the naive believe what the government tells them.
I trust you can point us to a more reliable source of such information?
I guess he could jump in a boat and bring a thermometer! It would be interesting to read the methodology they use to collect the data, times images were gathered and number images. We have a quarter acre pond about 18' deep in a wind sheltered location and its amazing how warm the top 6" can get on a sunny 35C day at about 3pm. It feels well above 30C and a meter below is maybe 24C?. I'd think it would rare a great lake stratifies as much as that, so I'm surprised such big areas get near 30C but I think the NOAA knows what they are doing.
 
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Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Lubener
I serious have some doubt atleast for Lake Erie near Cleveland. Water temperature there is at 68 degrees at a depth of around 30 feet. I just have my doubts that even surface water temperatures are at 80 degrees as seen on your map. Water levels there are at record levels where several ferry lines called it quits for the season because they cannot dock properly to allow passengers to board and exit the boat.
It's not my map, it comes from the NOAA: https://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/glsea/ If you have issues with the data, feel free to take it up with them shrug
Only the naive believe what the government tells them. Don't know what point you were trying to make in the first place? mad
If you can't follow the point being made in the OP and instead want to pull out the tinfoil about the NOAA data, please, just exit my thread, you've got nothing of value to contribute.
 
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Originally Posted by IndyIan
I guess he could jump in a boat and bring a thermometer! It would be interesting to read the methodology they use to collect the data, times images were gathered and number images. We have a quarter acre pond about 18' deep in a wind sheltered location and its amazing how warm the top 6" can get on a sunny 35C day at about 3pm. It feels well above 30C and a meter below is maybe 24C?. I'd think it would rare a great lake stratifies as much as that, so I'm surprised such big areas get near 30C but I think the NOAA knows what they are doing.
Water temps continue to have an impact, this is this AM: [Linked Image] And updated NOAA map: [Linked Image] Bruce 7 and even 5 and 8 are now producing more than DNGS 1 and 2 as lower lake Huron temperatures allow Bruce output to stay at full.
 
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