Switch to 504?

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60
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South Carolina, USA
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I've got a 2017 VW Tiguan that's almost out of warranty: almost exclusively short-tripped so I do the oil changes at 5k. Engine requires 502 spec oil. Would switching to a 504 be 'better', or not worth it with my short OCI?
 
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120
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Atlanta, GA USA
Not to get into a short vs long OCI, but these VW 50X.XX oils are make for 18k OCIs. That's part of the certification. Putting that aside, I use the 504.00 spec or 507.00 in 5W-30. It's easier to find. Plus, the 0W-30 is closer to a 0w-40 weight and rest easy extending your OCI to 7.5k 10k.
 
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504 is 'better' in being a long life oil for flexible service interval up to 18k miles, condition applies . 502 isn't, and for fixed service interval . At 5k changes fixed interval, you don't need 504 , more so if it costs you more .
 
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I think it'd be worth it. I had a VW GTI. The undeehhod sticker said VW 502 while the owners manual stated 502, 503 and 504. 504 might help the intake valves accumulate deposits a little slower. I switched to using VW 504 oils for the most part around 80k when I replaced the intake manifold which is notorious to fail on mk6 GTI's. I cleaned the intake valves, too. My wife put a ton of.work miles on that car. I sold it with 166k to my brother. The car needs 1/2 a quart of oil at 4K into the oci.
 
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Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Not to get into a short vs long OCI, but these VW 50X.XX oils are make for 18k OCIs. That's part of the certification. Putting that aside, I use the 504.00 spec or 507.00 in 5W-30. It's easier to find. Plus, the 0W-30 is closer to a 0w-40 weight and rest easy extending your OCI to 7.5k 10k.
That is market specific! That depends on exploitation conditions, quality of gas etc. VW in certain country provides that data to VW and VW makes a decision what is going to be OCI n that specific market. 18K is not part of certification. I worked on development of VW 504.00/507.00 oil, and testing requires far more stringent testing than 18K OCI. Actually, we did on several vehicles 50k km OCI's, and on several vehicles 30k km OCI's without shutting down engines. Just among other testing that includes numerous cold starts without allowing oil to reach operating temperature. Once oil was approved by VW, VW also recommended OCI for that country where oil was made and sold based on data provided by VW HQ for that country.
 
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10,271
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Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by motech
I've got a 2017 VW Tiguan that's almost out of warranty: almost exclusively short-tripped so I do the oil changes at 5k. Engine requires 502 spec oil. Would switching to a 504 be 'better', or not worth it with my short OCI?
Depends. I use in 2011 Tiguan Castrol Edge 0W30 currently. Engines is smoothest with that oil, and it has low Noack. I was also thinking to switch to VW 504.00/507.00 now that US is using lower ULSG. Last time i tried that, in 2015, TBN in Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30 was shot after 3k. However, that is due to at that time higher sulphur levels in gas. If you switch, I would definitely do UOA and check TBN and TAN.
 
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My A4 under hood sticker say to use VW 504/502 The VW 504 starts with a lower TBN but has always decreased slower than I expected but that is using 93 octane
 
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Originally Posted by dbias
My A4 under hood sticker say to use VW 504/502 The VW 504 starts with a lower TBN but has always decreased slower than I expected but that is using 93 octane
Octane rating does not have to do anything with it. It is sulfur level in gas. I used 504. in Tiguan when sulfur was high, and oil barely retained TBN at safe levels after 3K. Now, things are different.
 
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South Carolina, USA
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All- thanks for the responses. I'll grab the M1 ESP 5w30 for the next change and do a UOA @ 3k miles to see how it's holding up, then stretch the OCI based on the results.
 
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10,271
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Originally Posted by motech
All- thanks for the responses. I'll grab the M1 ESP 5w30 for the next change and do a UOA @ 3k miles to see how it's holding up, then stretch the OCI based on the results.
Keep us posted. I also want to see how it worked.
 
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60
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South Carolina, USA
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Will do. Although there is also the new VW branded oil- I believe also made by Mobil- in a 0w30 weight that hits 504/507. Part #GE550301QDSP. I may run that instead and do the same test.
 
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120
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
Originally Posted by motech
Will do. Although there is also the new VW branded oil- I believe also made by Mobil- in a 0w30 weight that hits 504/507. Part #GE550301QDSP. I may run that instead and do the same test.
I think your engine was originally spec'd for 0w-40, 5w-40. I'd stick with 5W-30. Your in S. Carolina. 0w weight isn't necessary. Plus I've always heard the larger the spread means more Viscocity improvers and additives? Also, I've always though the HTHS is higher on 5W-40/5w-30 than the correlating 0W-XX oils. If your going down into the 30s that's essentially 1 grade lower. PLUS, over the OCI, the 5w is more likely to remain in grade vs. 0W.
 
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Atlanta, GA USA
Doesn't the VW oils begin with a lower TBN to begin with? I've read 3-4 points lower than a Mid/high SAPS oil? But they use a better base stock so it doesn't correlate. Also, the TBN drops low early in OCI but flatlines and stabilizes at a lower level throuout the OCI?
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by motech
Will do. Although there is also the new VW branded oil- I believe also made by Mobil- in a 0w30 weight that hits 504/507. Part #GE550301QDSP. I may run that instead and do the same test.
I think your engine was originally spec'd for 0w-40, 5w-40. I'd stick with 5W-30. Your in S. Carolina. 0w weight isn't necessary. Plus I've always heard the larger the spread means more Viscocity improvers and additives? Also, I've always though the HTHS is higher on 5W-40/5w-30 than the correlating 0W-XX oils. If your going down into the 30s that's essentially 1 grade lower. PLUS, over the OCI, the 5w is more likely to remain in grade vs. 0W.
W40 does not have anything to do with specification, HTHS does. Also, HTHS is not dependent on 0W. Base stock are relevant in that case. For example: Castrol Edge 5W40: KV100: 14.2, HTHS: 3.7 Castrol Edge 0W40: KV:100 13.1, HTHS: 3.7 The difference is that 0W40 has healthy dosage of PAO, unlike 5W40, and bcs. of that also lower Noack. If base stock was same, 5W40 would have lower Noack. However, 0W40 and 0W30 oil usually have more PAO or Esters. Also, going into W30 is NOT a grade lower. Grade is spread. W30: 9.5-12.5cst W40: 12.5-16.3cst Most Euro oils are light W40, heavy W30. Castrol Edge 0W40: 13.1cst Castrol Edge 0W30: 12.2cst.
 
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Slovenia EU
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
502 is pretty much obsolete at this point. Only advantage is price, which is not that much difference.
Thats why you always combine specs together as VW-MB-BMW For low/mid saps oils it is usually like: vw504 /507.... MB 229.51.... BMW LL-04 smile Edit: its funny to observe how americans are reluctant to put lets say a VW spec in Toyota (my example in a sig).... Although VW spec is in this case far superior from what Toyota specs for that car smile
 
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120
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
502 is pretty much obsolete at this point. Only advantage is price, which is not that much difference.
Thats why you always combine specs together as VW-MB-BMW For low/mid saps oils it is usually like: vw504 /507.... MB 229.51.... BMW LL-04 smile Edit: its funny to observe how americans are reluctant to put lets say a VW spec in Toyota (my example in a sig).... Although VW spec is in this case far superior from what Toyota specs for that car smile
Why should the Oil/manufacturers pay for a spec that isn't needed ?? Has to be done on every oil. It requires development. Oil manufacturers submitted oil samples based on requirements to VW, who then validated the results. They then offer the certification. It boils down to COST, CHOICE and FREEDOM, Since your bringing up the American thing... cool
 
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3,507
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LoL....u said FREEDOM...but if we elaborate that topic...we both will be banned and our post will be deleted in your lalaland of democracy laugh Back to the topic...!!! Do you think that my local Toyota dealer even sell API SN/ ILSAC GF5 oil? Its just rebranded Mobil1 esp 5w30 under Toyota sticker (or at least it was in 2008 when I was working on Toyota service)
 
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120
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
Mobil ESP 5W-30 happens to meet those builder certifications. However, I doubt they will carry the Mobil oil that specifies ESP...ie Low-SAPS formulation. Not sure who is making the OEM Toyota branded oil. If it's Mobil, it's probably the regular Mobil one or EP equivalent.
 
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