Should i buy the $49 Universal CATalytic Conv?

[SuperFast]

I wont post the link, but it says "Universal Catalytuic COnverter, 15032, New" for $49.99 OBO (Or Best Offer)

Mine is likely all plugged up, it -COULD- be causing what is happening with my car.. particularly since the exhaust egts so hot, the lower pipe that snakes around Oil pan -SMOKES!!- So, i suspect a back-up,, maybe (maybe, i dont know) its NOT FUel Pump, though that is likely going out too.

Question is, would YOU buy that Universal one?

(Oh, and the guys on Thirdgen.org say that "Hollowing out" the CAT will makie it sound HORRIBLE, so im just asking. CATalytic converter and Fuel Pump = Plan of attack one, THEN Carb, as thats intermittent issues that MAY be coming from it, and may, in fact, be fine.)

84 Camaro 2.8L V6 Auto, used sat a while, 164,000 miles, 89 makes it better but at this point it still messed up i cant just put better fuel in it and think the CAT will "un-clog" itself, tried that already, considerign replacement and im willign to bet its about as dead as they come.)

And yes, MPG is down.. both Fuel Pump dyuing AND Cat symptom, amongst other consistent symptoms of hard starts/dies, backfires, "intermittent acting up" and, jsut recently, a "out of gas" few seconds on highway at 70MPH (pulled over checked it out.. nothing wrong. Fine whole way home, had BAD "out of gas" acting episode on city street. Then runs finme when warmed, and doesnt really want to start or run right when cold, or just sat too long.. Something is up.)

 

[JeremyInMT]

Very different car than mine, but on my 02 grand am w/v6, the universal one would make it throw a P0420 code...catalytic converter not working at proper efficiency level. Some folks seem to have good luck though I guess.

 

[unDummy]

Its an '84. I probably wouldn't want to spend more than $50 for a repair. Its worth the try but you're sacrificing 3 cases of beer for that catalytic converter.

You're going to have to cut/weld some. Budget that too.

 

[TLMjared]

in my experience catalytic converters rarely are the cause of a problem but the effect of a different issue is what kills them. on an 84 your probably would be ok to use a generic cat. con. its the newer chevy's that seem to be really picky and throw codes with the wrong cat con.
If it were my car I'd want to know what was causing the cat con to fail before spending the money to replace it so I could fix the problem first.
and like unDummy said, those universals need to be cut and welded in. I wouldn't waste time trying to clamp it, it needs to be welded.

 

[meep]

universal cats usually have very little material in them. if it's cooked, then why? oil burn? incomplete combustion? a $50 cat probably isn't worth much, and if there is a problem upstream, won't last long.

pull it and see if a shop vac will blow air through it???

 

[eljefino]

The cat and whether it's hollow or not has little to do with exhaust sound. If there's a flange at one end or the other, unbolt it and take a look see. If it's obstructed there will usually be chunks banging around. A "normal" cat will look to have endless window screen inside.

I put a universal cat on my 1991 dodge dakota and all I needed was to sawzall the welded one out and I muffler clamped the new one in. It was smaller so I got a foot of pipe that had a slip fit on one end... so I had three clamps. The cat itself had slip fit ends, where the inner diameter is the same as the OD of the pipe you're splicing into.

Perhaps not in cali, your old cat, if it hasn't blow its guts apart, may be worth more than $50 at a scrap yard, on account of it has 10x the platinum of the new aftermarket ones.

 

[bdcardinal]

They wont be able to ship it to CA if its out of state. You can only ship OEM or CARB certified cats into CA.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They wont be able to ship it to CA if its out of state. You can only ship OEM or CARB certified cats into CA.


Yes, for ~ 3-5x the price of the other '49 state' units, let alone any universal catcon.

But are we sure that (even in the Republik of Cali) he is not allowed to have a non-CARB catcon on something that old, and that far out of emissions warranty??

 

[JHZR2]

No way, been there done that. So little active material, that my failed OE cat was as good for NOx reduction as a brand new aftermarket special.

If there is an OEM or CARB cat that actually has some active material, youll be better off, IMO.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They wont be able to ship it to CA if its out of state. You can only ship OEM or CARB certified cats into CA.


Yes, for ~ 3-5x the price of the other '49 state' units, let alone any universal catcon.

But are we sure that (even in the Republik of Cali) he is not allowed to have a non-CARB catcon on something that old, and that far out of emissions warranty??


All cats must be OEM or CARB approved direct fit. no universals anymore as of last year. Some of my exhaust shop customers had to throw away thousands of dollars worth of universal cats that were now illegal to install.

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal


All cats must be OEM or CARB approved direct fit. no universals anymore as of last year. Some of my exhaust shop customers had to throw away thousands of dollars worth of universal cats that were now illegal to install.


Yet another reason I'm glad I don't live in California.

Seriously, what is the reason for this? Aftermarket universal cats may not be as good as OEM, but given the mileage they are typically installed at, they don't need to last as long.

If the aftermarket cat is working properly, it should still pass an emissions test. If it isn't, you would be getting a check engine light.

Is there something different about California cats, or is this just an excuse for the state to collect money for the certification program?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: jim302

Seriously, what is the reason for this?


The reason is as I mentioned before. The loadings are so poor that an OEM converter at end of life actually does as well or better than a brand new cheapo aftermarket converter. They really are set up to just let you pass. CARB it seems cares a bit more about air quality than that.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Some of my exhaust shop customers had to throw away thousands of dollars worth of universal cats that were now illegal to install.

You mean they literally threw them in the trash? That sounds really dumb. They couldn't have sold them to people out of state? Or at the very least sold them for scrap?

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Some of my exhaust shop customers had to throw away thousands of dollars worth of universal cats that were now illegal to install.

You mean they literally threw them in the trash? That sounds really dumb. They couldn't have sold them to people out of state? Or at the very least sold them for scrap?


+1

I hope the Dictatorship of California didnt outlaw them selling and *gasp& MAKING A PROFIT OR SALE on them in ANY way.. i.e. as in selling them to the other 49 States!! How DARE they make money California didnt want!!

Unless the Universal CATS con EBay are from California...

On a side note, im now -REALLY- confused. I put some gallons of 93 in there today. Started her up, drove her. Drove as if car was without issue in ANY department these past few hours! AND i just started her up again to test. Smooth! Maybe a starter whirr/grind, btu i matched it with gas and it seemed to start vetter too!!!

Can 93 REALLY be making my car run better ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Trav]

In 84 i believe they have still used a pelleted cat,i have no idea what the CA spec cat was,if its a flat bedpan with a bung in the bottom it has pellets.
These primitive cats were restrictive even when new.
GM sold pellets separately and to change them you just removed the bung on the bottom and let the old ones fall out or poke them with a screwdriver to break them up to get them out.

A shop vac attached to the tail pipe would create enough suction to suck the new pellets out of the bag then put the bung back in,the cat was like new again.
Removing the pellets causes no difference in sound whatsoever as long as the bung was reinstalled in the empty shell.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
On a side note, im now -REALLY- confused. I put some gallons of 93 in there today. Started her up, drove her. Drove as if car was without issue in ANY department these past few hours! AND i just started her up again to test. Smooth! Maybe a starter whirr/grind, btu i matched it with gas and it seemed to start vetter too!!!

Can 93 REALLY be making my car run better ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


if you've got carbon buildup in the cylinders, artificially raising compression, then yes, higher octane fuel will indeed make it run better. You need to get that carbon out. seafoam treatment, double-doses of techron over many tanks of fuel, or other carbon-cleaning methods come in to play. you may want to pull the valve covers and see if you have crud built up in there too--- sludged oil can compromise the valve seals, allowing oil seepage and buildup in the cyls as well. so cleaning those areas and then running a decent high mileage oil could all bring some life back into what may very well be a quite solid engine. Note, if you go the chemical route, it will take time. The fastest way to get rid of heavy carbon buildup is with a screwdriver and wire brush..

M

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: meep
Originally Posted By: SuperFast
On a side note, im now -REALLY- confused. I put some gallons of 93 in there today. Started her up, drove her. Drove as if car was without issue in ANY department these past few hours! AND i just started her up again to test. Smooth! Maybe a starter whirr/grind, btu i matched it with gas and it seemed to start vetter too!!!

Can 93 REALLY be making my car run better ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


if you've got carbon buildup in the cylinders, artificially raising compression, then yes, higher octane fuel will indeed make it run better. You need to get that carbon out. seafoam treatment, double-doses of techron over many tanks of fuel, or other carbon-cleaning methods come in to play. you may want to pull the valve covers and see if you have crud built up in there too--- sludged oil can compromise the valve seals, allowing oil seepage and buildup in the cyls as well. so cleaning those areas and then running a decent high mileage oil could all bring some life back into what may very well be a quite solid engine. Note, if you go the chemical route, it will take time. The fastest way to get rid of heavy carbon buildup is with a screwdriver and wire brush..

M


meep, i really appreciate this! i was almost thinkign this, as i DID have a "sludge MONNSTER" (!!!) and now after new oil and Mos2, its lookign a LOT better up there.. making me want to change the Oil (which still looks medium-colored) just thinking about it! UI also use a heavier Oil, as im concerned about Fuel Dilution (though i may give GC a try this time, its still somewhat heavy.) I might do that! And as to the chemicals.. 10-4! I put MMO down the cabr throat the other day.. and what a smoke show!! I may likely do that again with Seafoam, and the rest in the tank! It may take time, but i think maybe i do owe it an OCI (just need to find a spot with my oil container) .. and go from there!

Yes, ti seems "solid" just a hiccup eghre and there.. felt like fuel pump and the gas level gauge SI wavy, but maybe its not that? idk! I know shop is somethign i cant afford, so its great to learn.

TY!

(I also wonder if "Cylinder hot spots" are a real thing... causing odd combustion when it tuerned off on lower grade fuel...)

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: jim302
Is there something different about California cats, or is this just an excuse for the state to collect money for the certification program?


I have since found out that YES, there is indeed an actual composition difference between CARB certified catcons and 49 state cats (BOTH direct fit, OEM replacement, forget about universals), and it is NOT just the certification one is paying twice (or more) the price for owning.

According to all of the reputable catcon manufacturer's techs (Eastern Catalytic, Magnaflow, Walker, Car Sound, etc.), the CARB items actually DO strip out more of the 'bad stuff' from the exhaust in order to comply with the tighter parameters of the Cali spec car's OBD2/emissions systems.