Schaeffer 10W-30 360 CI SBC 50 Hours

[Ryan00TJ]

This is my first analysis on my 23' Hammond Challenger MK II Boat.

Schaeffer 10w30 PAO Blend
360CI SBC 425 HP 72 MPH on Gaffrig Gauge's
256 Hours on Engine 50 hours on oil
Wix 51773 Oil Filter No Air Filter

Oil Cooler @ Powersteering Cooler
Boat is primarily used for crusing but see's WOT alot also! Oil temp stays at 175-190 under normal crusing but will raise to 220 but never over 230 degrees after 4-5 mins of WOT at 70+ mph.

Schaeffer's Analysis

Copper 85
Iron 54
Chromimum 0
Aluminum 7
Lead 16
Moly 108
Phos 885
Zinc 995
Mag 52
Calcium 2108

Antifreeze 0%
Fuel Positve Does not give exact amount
H20 0%
Silicon 10ppm
Visc 8.3 cst

SAE 20 W
Oxi 2%
Nit 5%
Sulfur 34%

Well I would appreciate some opinions on this UOA! Schaeffer's stated the visc reduction was due to the fuel dilution and that high copper was more than likely from the oil cooler. I'm definately going to a thicker oil next season, probably Schaeffer 15w40 PAO Blend or Amsoil 15w40 AME HDD and Marine. Wear numbers have to be better with a 40w instead of the 20w in there now.

[ September 29, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Ryan00TJ ]

 

[Al]

You would think that the Ox/Nit would be higher. Probably fuel dilution has something to do with it. I would seriously consider doing a Dyson/Blackstone analysis or contact Terry and Have him analyze your results. Unfortunately Schaeffer's analysis (albeit a good valus ) doesn't give TBN and I don't trust their Nitration and oxidation numbers.

With those numbers I think you need help

 

[userfriendly]

Ryan;
I would calculate 100 miles for every hour of operation as an engine in a performance boat is working very hard even when cruising.
Fifty hours=5,000 miles.
I think your wear numbers are reasonable, but either you need to change the oil sooner, put a better oil pump in the engine, go to a slightly heavier oil or all three to get the lead numbers down a little.
I noticed that you got most of the additive package back with the exception of zink.
That may suggest that there were times when the oil failed and the AW additives took over.
At this point I woldn't go fishing all over the map for a completely different engine oil.
Just try a 15W40 as you mentioned, and make sure the engine and oil is warmed up before hammering on the engine.
Your operating temperatures do not suggest that a full synthetic will help much if at all, unless you wish to continue with the long drain intervals.
Could you trell us about the engine?
It sounds like you have a very well put together engine.
+.060" SBC
edit..I wonder if the copper could be comming from bronze guides.
If you are running a big cam and high rocker ratios along with PC seals, the guides may be taking a beating.
In performance engines a little oil consumption may not be a bad thing.

[ September 29, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]

 

[Steve S]

Being this is a boat motor the numbers are looking good .Most poeple don't realize marine use is brutal on the engine and the drives. since your motor is high output, feul should be expected to be higher. Think about using Schaeffer's 15w/40 marine motors can use the thicker oil. I have had 3 flatbottoms so I speak from experience, but your boat can hold wide open throttle so I suggested the 15w/40.

[ September 29, 2003, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve S ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Most boaters down here use the straight 107 40wt oil. Don't need a multivis oil on a boat most times as temps are never at extremes when cranking.

 

[userfriendly]

What, and use 1.3% more fuel during warm-up?
I agree with the SAE 40 mono-grade,

but I'm getting afraid to post my opinion on that subject.
It seems that everyone is pushing multi-grades for every application, and going to great lengths to promote them and prove their point.
SAE 40, right on, with .0025"-.003" rod and main clearance, .0015-.002" guide clearance without the pc seals, a good oil pump and a high flow filter.
Mono grades in the question of the day section, are blasted because they provide more top ring wetting and a larger oil dam.
Pardon me folks, but is that not a good thing from a lubrication perspective?

 

[Steve S]

Straight 40 is very good ,15w/40 will cover all bases . The Straight 40 is really good for big boats that cruise at steady speeds for long periods of time ,something to do with the rings sticking from the viscosity improvers.

 

[Pablo]

For a big V8 a WFO, the numbers look pretty good.

But we have no point of reference. With that much fuel dilution I recommend Amsoil 20W-50 S2K racing oil.

 

[userfriendly]

Straight SAE 40 may be good for big boats that cruise all day, and maybe even better for little engines that work their bag off with full throttle starts all day long.

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Here are some specs on the Engine....
5.7L 4 bolt Main Block Bored .60 over to 360CI
Lunati Forged Crank
Lunati Forged Rods
JE Forged Pistons
224/224 .480/.480 112LSA Cam
AFR 195 Aluminum Heads 2.02I 1.60E 10.8-1 Comp
Lunati 2.450" Dual Valve Springs
Edelrock Performer RPM Intake
Lunati Gold Race Forged 1.6R Roller Rockers
Lunati Custom Length Hardened Chromoly Pushrods
Holley 750 cfm Double Pumper Carb
Full MSD Ignition

Engine Dyno was 424.5 Hp @ 441.3 tq

As a winter project I'm thinking either 383 stroker or a fully forged and blown 406. Although any more power will need a Bravo outdrive as my current Alpha Gen II will not hold. I'm pretty much set on trying Schaeffer's 15w40 as I have 4 cases on the way. Fill her up with green Schaeffer and let here hibernate till April.

BTW My previous motor in this boat saw many 150 HP Nitrous shots and after 10 seconds of spraying my oil temp would rise from 205-210 to 280+ and take a good half hour of cruising to drop down to normal range. Nitrous is very hard on motors and builds extreme heat as shown in the increase in oil temp in 10 secs.

[ September 30, 2003, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Ryan00TJ ]

 

[userfriendly]

Ryan;
The spring od should be 1.45" (typo)
The 1.6 rockers will give you .512" lift.
I see the cam as being a little small for 10.8 compression at [email protected]" 112+4 adv= 4/40 48/-4
which means that your cranking compression is around 200 PSI. A tad high for pump gas.
I wouldn't have closed the intake valve much before 48* abdc. Is your cam a hyd roller?
Your drive may be able to handle a 383 or 406 if you flatten out the torque curve, and the bigger engines will want more cylinder head and cam.
SBCs make about the same power a a 440 dodge with 250 less LBS to lug around.

Add a little NOS and you might leave the crank in the lake with a production SBC 400 block.
edit..I'm sure you can find another 50 HP with those AFR heads with a cam change to 234/240 113 sep at 111* Int c/l= 6/48 55/5

[ September 30, 2003, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Userfriendly.....yeah that 2.450" spring was a typo lol! That would be one massive spring. Yeah the 224 cam is a baby but I was previously running a solid lifter setup with a large cam and went through 2 gear sets in my Alpha and it really was a pain getting it to idle and manuever in close quarter dock area's. So I went with something that makes a fun cruising time. Cam in there now is Flat Tappet Hydraulic lifter. At my local lake it's hard for them 454 and 502 guys to run with my boat due to weight. My boat is 2750 lbs dry.

 

[Bror Jace]

Cripes! I think this is the hardest paces anyone's put this oil through!

Moly level is depleted by about half. Next interval, even with the same oil, would almost HAVE to be better.

But yes, I'd try the Schaeffer 15W40 you have on order. See if that stuff sheers down at all.

--- Bror Jace

 

[userfriendly]

Ryan,
I bet that FT cam was ground on a 108.
Low speed operation is tied to overlap and nothing else.
The cam companies have to grind the cams that sell.
Who would buy a 250/258 FT 117 sep if they ground that number? 10/60 68/10, lash would take away 6 dgrees of both of those overlap numbers, and the engine would idle down to around 800RPM.