Planned Changes at Honda

Messages
661
Location
Minnesota
I think it'll take them a long time to recover the customers they lost over the years. Based on my experiences with the 3 Honda vehicles I've owned as well as the small power equipment that has all had weird issues or broken, my opinion is Honda makes chintzy junk. Some have "great" luck with the stuff they manufacture. I gave them a shot and everything I have owned from them has given me issues. I get it, all vehicles have "some issues", but when you pay a premium for a vehicle, IMO it should provide premium reliability. I've had better luck with VW and Toyota than my Honda's, the Honda's have given me more issues second to one Chevy I owned. Same with the Honda power equipment I've owned, broken throttles, auto chokes that don't work etc. My Toro's never gave me any issues.
 
Messages
9,373
Location
Canuck living in California
It's good to see they are not in denial and see their own faults. Personally, while I think the Honda lineup is pretty good and I don't see any major faults there, it's the Acura brand that needs some serious attention. The only saving grace there is the MDX, the rest of the lineup is a sorry excuse of a premium brand.
 
Messages
14,449
Location
The Old North State
Quote
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.
Motor Trend for one not enamored with the new Mazda 3 series and their move from independent rear suspension to torsion beam based. In fact because of that, MT has removed the 3 from what has been an automatic recommendation in the category. As for topic, without commenting on article specifically, comments pretty much as expected. What I find curious, is FCA folks casting shade on Honda reliability. Now that's irony. But, unsurprising in my observation.
 
Messages
14,413
Location
...
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Quote
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.
Motor Trend for one not enamored with the new Mazda 3 series and their move from independent rear suspension to torsion beam based. In fact because of that, MT has removed the 3 from what has been an automatic recommendation in the category. As for topic, without commenting on article specifically, comments pretty much as expected. What I find curious, is FCA folks casting shade on Honda reliability. Now that's irony. But, unsurprising in my observation.
Those FCA folks are busy learning to pronounce Peugeot.
 
Messages
6,834
Location
California
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
They need to close the design center in California and move it back to Japan. it used to be Honda and Toyota were neck and neck for building the highest quality cars in the world. Now Toyota is alone at the top. That's why their cars and trucks hold their value so well.
Toyota has a design center in Newport Beach, BTW. It was where the legendary 1992-2000 Lexus SC/Toyota Soarer and the Celica/Supra was penned at. cool Honda is the biggest exporter of cars from the US/Canada now - their Ohio and Canadian plants are the primary sources of the CR-V/Civic sedan/Accord and Acura models for most markets. A lot of Honda's "brain trust" is concentrated around Columbus, OH. With Brexit looking like a certainty, Honda will have most of their production for the European market from Ohio or Thailand.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,150
Location
Arizona
It has to have been difficult for Honda to maintain their R&D budget after the ‘80s and early ‘90s). Exchange rates then made it relatively easy for the Japanese to put more money into their products intended for North America, and still maintain very good profitability. That dynamic changed a while ago. That said, my last Honda isn't built ‘like a Honda.' It's not what I'd call bad, it's just not what I expected based on many previous Honda experiences. I like our Camry apart from IDIOTIC transmission programming. I love my Mazda 6.
 
Messages
9,849
Location
OH
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Is it to much to hope we'll see decent Hondas being produced again?
Or at least they could start making them nice looking again...the new Civics are hideous looking...
 
Messages
5,486
Location
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Originally Posted by diyjake
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.
If you like paying made in USA or Japan prices for a made in Mexico vehicle, sure.
are you insuating Mexicans cannot build a good car?
Perhaps he is insinuating that the American car companies building vehicles in Mexico for Japanese car prices might be the real problem.
I was saying that you would never know that a vehicle was made in Mexico by looking at the price tag. IMO, the savings should be passed along to the consumer.
 
Messages
6,834
Location
California
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon. These are from Honda's good old days:
I think Honda's heyday was the 1990s, and the best Accord was the CB7 1990-1993 generation. Honda used to market themselves as simple and unpretentious.
 
Messages
1,152
Location
USA
Originally Posted by nthach
I think Honda's heyday was the 1990s, and the best Accord was the CB7 1990-1993 generation. Honda used to market themselves as simple and unpretentious. [/quote] Ironically Honda's founder Sōichirō Honda passed away in 1991 just after the CB7 Accord came out in 1990...when he passed away others took over and it's pretty clear they decided to IGNORE the playbook he invented, which was incredibly stupid and frankly idiotic. What I've always wondered is why the family didn't speak out about how the company increasingly strayed from what made the company great.
 
Last edited:
Messages
10,225
Location
USA
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon. These are from Honda's good old days: Prelude [Linked Image from cdn04.carsforsale.com] [Linked Image from i.pinimg.com] Accord [Linked Image from assets.superstreetonline.com] Civic [Linked Image from static.cargurus.com] [Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]
I love the dash on that 4th gen Prelude. It looks awesome smile [Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
 
Messages
591
Location
Atlanta, GA
My mom is (was?) a die hard Pilot fan owning an EX or EX-L of each generation, blindly buying the next gen because she was so happy with the previous. She is not a fan of her 3rd generation (EX-L) and she sums it up as 'its just not the same' and laments she wishes she never got rid of her 2nd gen EX. Blind brand loyalty though so once the time comes she will probably just trade it in for a 4th gen Pilot. This is her first one with VCM so we shall see how that goes since 90% of her driving is within the parameters of VCM shutting off cylinders, curious to see if it becomes a problem as the miles pile on as she is only ~50k miles. She follows the maintenance minder and takes it to the Honda dealer when it first warns her maintenance is needed.
 
Messages
575
Location
MA
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it..... My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible. I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!
 
Last edited:
Messages
6,834
Location
California
Originally Posted by AC1DD
What I've always wondered is why the family didn't speak out about how the company increasingly strayed from what made the company great.
I've read that one of Soichiro Honda's sons who ran Mugen got into trouble with the Japanese authorities for tax evasion or fraud. Another theory was that the Honda family didn't want their children involved in the family business. Unlike Toyota with the Toyoda family or Ford, Honda doesn't have a family member involved on the board or the C-suite.
 

CKN

Messages
5,440
Location
Utah
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it..... My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible. I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!
Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.
 
Last edited:
Messages
575
Location
MA
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it..... My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible. I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!
Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.
It was a fundamental flaw in its design. Reprogramming the ECU helped a little after the first or second model year but that 1-2 issue was still there. I read there was some physical revisions done for 2019+ but I'm not sure if it made a difference. I believe one of the changes was it starts out in 2nd gear now unless you mash the pedal and then it will drop into 1st - basically avoiding the 1-2 shift. If that's the case then apparently the physical revisions didn't due the trick. Perhaps someone with a 2019 or 2020 can confirm. It's been awhile since I've visited the Pilot forums. One would think in designing and testing you would get the 1-2 shift right since you are guaranteed to have to do it every single time you stop and then go. If it was the 8-9 shift I guess I could understand - around town you'd probably be unaware of it unless you got up to highway speeds...but the 1-2? Honda also decided to use this AT even after it was a disappointing disaster for FCA. All the same issues and then some starting in 2014 - TWO years before they put it in the Pilot. This decision really shines on what Honda has become - someone who doesn't really give a [censored] about putting out a good product - it's just about cost-containment and what can we do as cheaply as possible that won't be too much of a disappointment/generate too many complains or warranty claims. Honda's recent admission about problems with QC and design/engineering is telling about how they lost their way to a great extent.
 
Last edited:

CKN

Messages
5,440
Location
Utah
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it..... My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible. I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!
Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.
It was a fundamental flaw in its design. Reprogramming the ECU helped a little after the first or second model year but that 1-2 issue was still there. I read there was some physical revisions done for 2019+ but I'm not sure if it made a difference. I believe one of the changes was it starts out in 2nd gear now unless you mash the pedal and then it will drop into 1st - basically avoiding the 1-2 shift. If that's the case then apparently the physical revisions didn't due the trick. Perhaps someone with a 2019 or 2020 can confirm. It's been awhile since I've visited the Pilot forums. One would think in designing and testing you would get the 1-2 shift right since you are guaranteed to have to do it every single time you stop and then go. If it was the 8-9 shift I guess I could understand - around town you'd probably be unaware of it unless you got up to highway speeds...but the 1-2? Honda also decided to use this AT even after it was a disappointing disaster for FCA. All the same issues and then some starting in 2014 - TWO years before they put it in the Pilot. This decision really shines on what Honda has become - someone who doesn't really give a [censored] about putting out a good product - it's just about cost-containment and what can we do as cheaply as possible that won't be too much of a disappointment/generate too many complains or warranty claims. Honda's recent admission about problems with QC and design/engineering is telling about how they lost their way to a great extent.
I hear ya. I bought a new 2018 Silverado a year ago-and it wasn't cheap (MSRP $52,000) and the 6 speed automatics in these trucks I refer to them as "clunk-O-Matics". So-Honda isn't alone. I had a 2012-I traded in-it had the same "unrefined" characteristics.
 
Messages
4,088
Location
Kansas
Sometimes they way forward is in the past. They need to bring the Honda racing department into their production car line so they can get things back to the good old days. Find the most reliable engine and transmission designs and put it in everything. No DI and forced induction together either. Only CVT in anything under 100hp. Transmission coolers on everything. Five to seven qt oil capacity on everything.0w30 or thicker too. I wish the Prelude would come back. Sorry to hijack the post,just want the Honda from the 80's/90's.
 
Top