Piston Engine Management

Messages
4,432
Location
Connecticut
Interesting article. Noticed this quote in there: wink “Oil analysis should never be used as a snapshot in determining the internal engine health.”
 
Messages
5,301
I was just reading online the other day about the careful and precise operating techniques required on the early Mooney M20K 231 Continental turbo's with the fixed wastegate or whatever. Sheesh !! Lot to stay on top of and that's just for a single. Apparently Mooney improved it all in 1986 and beyond with the 252's LB engine and an automatic wastegate setup, as well as numerous other improvements both engine and airframe.
 
Messages
5,301
And then there's this, gleaned from the interwebs ... --------------------- DEDICATED TO ALL THOSE WHO WORKED ON OR FLEW BEHIND ROUND ENGINES We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and our hearing. A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a ladylike poof and start whining a little louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho [censored] or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. Remember Jimmy Stewart nursing that engine to life in "Flight Of The Phoenix "? It's a GUY thing. When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan. Useful, but hardly exciting. When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights. Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell. ---------------------
 
Messages
1,537
Location
Georgia
Thread starter
I thought I would add this link to FAA powerplant manuals (and other manuals). They have updated the maintenance manuals over the past few years and I, at least, think they are well done (ooo, looky at all the colors..). At any rate some of this kind of knowledge might be helpful in assisted annuals so we could save some bux. Some of it is basic but I hope it will be helpful. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/ There are two powerplant volumes. Happy Sunday everyone!
 
Messages
4,825
Location
Columbus,Nebraska
Twenty eight cylinders with a right hand twist arrangement, 56 spark plugs,seven double magnetos, high and low tension ignition wiring, that monster had it all. Seeing a cut away 4360 in motion was better than sliced bread and,you know what else. When I was coming up on my P oral and practical, I dreamed that I was ask to set up the timing on one. In reality and looking back many,many years,the FAA examiners around Tulsa gave very easy practicals because they knew students from Spartan didn't know squat about squat, knew the FAA requirements for aviation schools called for a high percentage of students passing the A&P tests, and knew that nobody cared anyway. I really thought I was in king cotton when I decided to enroll at Spartan. Going to be waist deep in airplanes. Only thing that was waist deep was airplane junk. That "train on live equipment" junk had been dead for twenty five years when I got there.No component worked on was complete. There were ALWAYS parts missing. And no one cared. And, surprise of surprise, airplanes weren't the main focus. $$ reigned supreme. And sometime later, Spartan figured out that if they started calling the school a college, even more $$ would roll in. College my hind side. None of the courses at Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology are accepted by a degree granting institution. Nothing but a black hole money scam. liar
 
Messages
9,796
Location
Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
because they knew students from Spartan didn't know squat about squat, knew the FAA requirements for aviation schools called for a high percentage of students passing the A&P tests, and knew that nobody cared anyway. I really thought I was in king cotton when I decided to enroll at Spartan. Going to be waist deep in airplanes. Only thing that was waist deep was airplane junk. That "train on live equipment" junk had been dead for twenty five years when I got there.No component worked on was complete. There were ALWAYS parts missing. And no one cared. And, surprise of surprise, airplanes weren't the main focus. $$ reigned supreme. And sometime later, Spartan figured out that if they started calling the school a college, even more $$ would roll in. College my hind side. None of the courses at Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology are accepted by a degree granting institution. Nothing but a black hole money scam. liar
Wow, just the opposite of my Embry Riddle experience.
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,825
Location
Columbus,Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
because they knew students from Spartan didn't know squat about squat, knew the FAA requirements for aviation schools called for a high percentage of students passing the A&P tests, and knew that nobody cared anyway. I really thought I was in king cotton when I decided to enroll at Spartan. Going to be waist deep in airplanes. Only thing that was waist deep was airplane junk. That "train on live equipment" junk had been dead for twenty five years when I got there.No component worked on was complete. There were ALWAYS parts missing. And no one cared. And, surprise of surprise, airplanes weren't the main focus. $$ reigned supreme. And sometime later, Spartan figured out that if they started calling the school a college, even more $$ would roll in. College my hind side. None of the courses at Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology are accepted by a degree granting institution. Nothing but a black hole money scam. liar
Wow, just the opposite of my Embry Riddle experience.
You made a good choice Cujet. Forty some years ago it was harder to sort out the good from the not so good to Spartan. And I visited Tulsa twice. The airlines had been using gas turbine powered aircraft for over a decade and Spartan had one beat up vintage gas turbine laying on the floor. There was no gas turbine training period. The highlight of fourteen months there was leaving the classroom one spring morning to watch AAL land their first 747. No comparison between Spartan and Embry Riddle.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Messages
4,825
Location
Columbus,Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Now I understand that Spartan Grad reference that you have made so often...
I'm more than a little anal when it comes to Spartan. It was more than a bitter disappointment. Spartan wasn't really about airplanes at all.We moved through the various phases of the airframe and powerplant curriculum, but there was no cohesiveness about it. It was just one big joke. My wife worked as a nurse to put me through the school, and when I finished, I was so depressed about the experience that I became very depressed and she divorced me. I didn't really blame her. She is a very intelligent person and went on to great accomplishments. Me not so much. Several good psychotherapist got me up and functioning again, but I never have been able to completely forget about that year and a half in Tulsa. Still have a tendency to get a little screwy when I hear airplane. Spartan wasn't about airplanes. sick
 

Astro14

Staff member
Messages
11,334
Location
Virginia Beach
I am so sorry! What a terrible series of events. You made the reference to Spartan often, so I could tell that it held significance for you, but I had no idea how much significance...
 
Messages
4,825
Location
Columbus,Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I am so sorry! What a terrible series of events. You made the reference to Spartan often, so I could tell that it held significance for you, but I had no idea how much significance... Up until about two years ago, there was an internet site for rating schools, and Spartan had entry after entry of very derogatory comments about how the school operated. Not really a legitimate aviation school. The execs tapped into federal loan money that was available for schooling and subsequently, all kinds of riff-raff enrolled. Spartan is NOT an aviation school. There are much better choices. DO NOT even consider this con game of a school. o!o
 
Messages
323
Location
wa
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Twenty eight cylinders with a right hand twist arrangement, 56 spark plugs,seven double magnetos, high and low tension ignition wiring, that monster had it all. Seeing a cut away 4360 in motion was better than sliced bread and,you know what else. When I was coming up on my P oral and practical, I dreamed that I was ask to set up the timing on one. In reality and looking back many,many years,the FAA examiners around Tulsa gave very easy practicals because they knew students from Spartan didn't know squat about squat, knew the FAA requirements for aviation schools called for a high percentage of students passing the A&P tests, and knew that nobody cared anyway. I really thought I was in king cotton when I decided to enroll at Spartan. Going to be waist deep in airplanes. Only thing that was waist deep was airplane junk. That "train on live equipment" junk had been dead for twenty five years when I got there.No component worked on was complete. There were ALWAYS parts missing. And no one cared. And, surprise of surprise, airplanes weren't the main focus. $$ reigned supreme. And sometime later, Spartan figured out that if they started calling the school a college, even more $$ would roll in. College my hind side. None of the courses at Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology are accepted by a degree granting institution. Nothing but a black hole money scam. liar
Not all had 7 magneto's, those where the old dash number units. -59B had four low tension magnetos and 56 coils and I have timed them, its not fun playing with spark plugs on the bottom, especially if its not on a plane.
 
Top