Oil recommendation to prolong the inevitable

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HondaRD

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So here is something I am losing a little sleep over and would love to hear some of thoughts from those here. On three occasions over the past two months I have heard what sounds like a metal on metal knocking noise immediately after starting my car after it has sat for over eight hours (after cold soak). The duration of the noise lasts only a second. The reason for this intermittent problem seems to be due to:

“The oil control valve (or OCV) operates the cam gear. The cam gear contains an "actuator" that allows the cam timing to be variable. What I read in the TSIB was there is a lock in the cam gear that is supposed to hold the "actuator" part in a fixed position until the engine's oil pressure is up to standard. In some of the engines the lock is not working correctly and this allows the actuator to float freely until oil pressure comes up and makes a clattering sound until oil pressure is up to normal. Apparently the failures are intermittent and not "hard" failures?"
-Lobuxracer @ clublexus.com

I’m not too excited about having the dealer perform the 6 hour procedure to replace both VVTi controllers so I am trying to delay the inevitable as long as I can. Currently, I’m trying to decide which oil to go with from this point forward. The car specs 5w30 or 5w-20. I noticed the start up noise after switching from dealer bulk oil (Valvoline 5w30) to Castrol GTX 5w-20. I don’t know if this is a coincidence but I am wondering if I should go back to using 5w30 (maybe Valvoline) to see if I no longer hear the noise. Since the weather will begin getting colder again I am wondering which oil would build up oil pressure the quickest. I cannot compare low temp viscosity or pour point for Castrol GTX because they don’t list it in their website. Any thoughts??

Here is the actual TSB if anyone is interested. Needless to say I am pretty bummed out if I have to let the dealer tear into the engine with less than 20,000 miles accumulated.
smirk.gif



TSB for engine start up noise
 
Man that noise brings back SCARY memories!!!!!!!! Three of my cars did that when I tried Castrol Syntec,Syntec Blend,or GTX oil in my cars. It was the worst on my 3000GT. It sounded as if I was starting it with no oil in it,and like your car,it always did it on a cold morning start.

Well,when I first bought my Z,the dealer oil was Valvoline. Car purred like a kitten! It was time to change the oil,Syntec was on sale,so I bought it. Started my car the next day and ??????????? There`s that dreadful piston slap! I finally realized it must be the oil. So I thought I`d try Mobil 1 (I never did in the past because of the price). My car has never run better! I can leave it unstarted for weeks at a time with whisper quiet startups. Been using Mobil 1 ever since (4 years or so now)!

Try that and see what happens. If you don`t want to try M1,just drain your oil and go back to Valvoline. I`ve never had any startup problems with it. You can`t go wrong with Valvoline. It`s my favorite conventional oil.
 
Quote:

Any thoughts??

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Yeah I got thoughts alright! Am supposed to assume by your screen name that we're talking about a Honda? It would help tremendously to have the year-make-model and engine type! For the life of me I can't understand why you guys keep doing that.
spankme.gif
 
Assuming that the noise is exactly the same like what you are experiencing, then I would strongly recommend you to look at a different brand of oil filter(s) with better quality ADBV (anti-drainback valve). This is the sound of a coldstart w/o oil pressure buildup.

Cheerios.

Q.
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure how I would go about checking the ADBV function. I know the ADBV is not part of the filter since this engine does not use the spin-on type filter but rather a replaceable element similar to BMW filters.

I'm thinking I may just go back to Valvoline 5w30 to see if there is a difference. I'm wondering is Valvoline 5w-20 would be a better choice when it comes to start up oil pressure.
dunno.gif
 
I`d just go grab a few quarts on Valvoline All Climate 10W30 and a Honda OEM oil filter (make sure you get it full......all the way to the top of the cross-hatch marks of the oil dipstick. Look in your owner`s manual and see how many quarts with filter change your car takes). Pull it up on ramps,drain the existing oil and remove filter,and fill her up with the Valvoline and install the Honda OEM oil filter.
 
Please let's keep the discussion (and of course, the specific language) at a tone that is consistent with what our owner demands. Thanks. EKP
 
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Quote:

Are you friking serious man? You're not going to tell what the [censored] kind of car this is? Am I supposed to be psychic?

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Whoa, relax man. Your previous post was made before I had a chance to answer it.

I'm sorry for not indicating which vehicle this was for in my original post. This is for a 2006 Lexus IS350 with a 3.5 liter V6.
 
Lexus.jpg


Why can't we copy/paste off of a pdf? Does anyone know?

Anyway, I don't know why a cam gear would be causing this problem; I have to read the pdf more in depth.
 
Okay from what I can tell, they're saying to replace the intake camshaft gears on both intake camshafts because there's some kind of chain slop going on; but they don't mention WHY the camshaft gears are causing the problem.
dunno.gif
What's the difference between the original camshaft gears and the new replacement camshaft gears? That's what I'm wondering.
dunno.gif
Why isn't the chain tensioner alleviating the problem?

HondaRD, isn't this Lexus still under warranty?
 
curious why bulk dealer oil is being used in such a car, wih an engine with such power density.

It does sound like an ADBV issue - is the dealer using genune toyota parts?

JMH
 
I'd use a 10-30, not a 5-30. That extra viscosity at startup may leave a slightly thicker film on contact surfaces while pressure pumps up.

I dislike mixing different oils for a "brew", but you might add 20% of straight 30 into the sump--- sort of simulate a 15-30. I know this idea will generate lots of startup pumpability comments, but if more oil sits up top because it's thicker, then you're starting cold with more lube present than a drained-down 5-30 with 0 psi in your actuator and a cam slapping around. unorthodox solution for no-easy-solution situation.

Mike
 
Yep, still under warranty thank goodness! I looked into this issue even deeper today and on each VVTi controller (1 on each cam) there is a lock pin. When the engine is stopped, oil pressure will drop which will lock the intake cam to the most retarded angle via lock pin and lock the exhaust cam to the most advanced angle for best startability. I'm guessing one of the lock pins may not fully engage during shut down like it should. Partial engagement would probably allow the pin to contact the rotating housing until oil pressure is built up enough to fully disengage the lock pin. I think the pin is either getting stuck or the return spring is out of spec.
 
Thanks for the feedback fellas. I am going to put in Valvoline 5w30 this weekend and monitor. If it continues to intermittently make the noise I may just have to accept fate and let the dealer have at it.
 
Well, on the invoice I see the dealer indicated the oil was Valvoline 5w30. The filter is an OEM toyota part number. The owner's manual does not state any special oil must be used to my knowledge. The sump holds 6.7 quarts.
 
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