Oil for the track

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Hey guys I am a new member here and I just had a question about oils appropriate for track usage. I have a 2017 bmw m2 and I was looking at some LL01 oils that was useable on the street and track, I know that these engines get extremely hot at times and can see oil temps close to 270ºF. So my question is what would be a good HTHS rating to keep the engine safe at these conditions? I was looking at penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 which apparently has an HTHS of 3.6 according to sources on here, and I was wondering if this was enough or if I should go for an oil with higher HTHS ratings. Thanks
 
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Originally Posted by lowon
Hey guys I am a new member here and I just had a question about oils appropriate for track usage. I have a 2017 bmw m2 and I was looking at some LL01 oils that was useable on the street and track, I know that these engines get extremely hot at times and can see oil temps close to 270ºF. So my question is what would be a good HTHS rating to keep the engine safe at these conditions? I was looking at penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 which apparently has an HTHS of 3.6 according to sources on here, and I was wondering if this was enough or if I should go for an oil with higher HTHS ratings. Thanks
Motul X-Cess GEN2 5W40 has HTHS 3.9. X-Cess 5W40 previous generation has HTHS 3.7. Are you looking approved LL01 or oil that is in that category? Castrol 0W40 has HTHS 3.7
 
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Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not approved oil for LL01, if he is looking for oils approved for LL01.
 
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Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not LL01 as aforementioned so I would prefer not to run that, otherwise I would be running their euro 5w40.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lowon
Hey guys I am a new member here and I just had a question about oils appropriate for track usage. I have a 2017 bmw m2 and I was looking at some LL01 oils that was useable on the street and track, I know that these engines get extremely hot at times and can see oil temps close to 270ºF. So my question is what would be a good HTHS rating to keep the engine safe at these conditions? I was looking at penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 which apparently has an HTHS of 3.6 according to sources on here, and I was wondering if this was enough or if I should go for an oil with higher HTHS ratings. Thanks
Motul X-Cess GEN2 5W40 has HTHS 3.9. X-Cess 5W40 previous generation has HTHS 3.7. Are you looking approved LL01 or oil that is in that category? Castrol 0W40 has HTHS 3.7
Yes I am looking for an LL01 approved oil so the motul x-cess gen 2 would not work for me. I have also looked through the entire BMW TIS of approved oils and was just mainly looking for an LL01 oil that was capable of hard track use under extremely high oil temps of 270ºF. So I guess if I had to rephrase my question is would be: 1) What would the minimum HTHS that could handle 270ºF oil temps on hard track use without shearing? - This is probably a crappy question but I was just curious what range of HTHS I should be looking at. 2) How does penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 stack up against castrol edge 0w40 on the track or valvoline 0w40 full synthetic advanced? Because penzoil platnium euro is really easy for me to obtain and really cheap so I would like to use it, but if the specs are not good enough to handle my intended operating conditions then I will happily search for another oil. 3) What would be the best out of these 3: Valvoline full synthetic advanced 0w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.7), penzzoil platinum euro 5w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.6 according to BITOG), castrol 0w40 4) is the 5w40 verison of castrol edge any good I cannot remember if I read something about that version being bad on BITOG. 5) If you guys have any other LL01 approved oils with a high HTHS that is not too difficult to obtain please let me know I am all ears. Thanks again for helping a nooby like me out.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not approved oil for LL01, if he is looking for oils approved for LL01.
+1
 
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Go to Walmart and buy the first LL01 oil you find. Change it when you're done or get a used oil analysis so you see how far you can go. That one would be interesting.
 
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Here are some excerpts from the 2020 Corvette owners manual. They recommend Mobil 1 ESP 0W40 with a Dexos 2 specification or for their top Corvette, the ZR1, they suggest Mobil 1 15w50. Your BMW is off warranty, correct? These oils are not LL-01. Enjoy.

2162C1A0-607B-4840-98F1-CAE6F9432341.png


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DBDE9B33-6D2C-480D-8E94-55A2A0DCBB6C.png
 
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Daily Driving - 0W40/5W40 year round. With track days - 15W50. Mobil 1 15W50 has a pour point of -38F and flash point of 450F. HTHS 4.5. LL-01 is just a robust oil for long intervals. With track days long intervals are a bad idea. So I'd give up the long intervals with LL-01 and concentrate on the robust part. In this case 15w50 will be a lot more robust as compared to 0w40.
 
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Originally Posted by Vladiator
Daily Driving - 0W40/5W40 year round. With track days - 15W50. Mobil 1 15W50 has a pour point of -38F and flash point of 450F. HTHS 4.5. LL-01 is just a robust oil for long intervals. With track days long intervals are a bad idea. So I'd give up the long intervals with LL-01 and concentrate on the robust part. In this case 15w50 will be a lot more robust as compared to 0w40.
approved
 
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Originally Posted by lowon
Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not LL01 as aforementioned so I would prefer not to run that, otherwise I would be running their euro 5w40.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lowon
Hey guys I am a new member here and I just had a question about oils appropriate for track usage. I have a 2017 bmw m2 and I was looking at some LL01 oils that was useable on the street and track, I know that these engines get extremely hot at times and can see oil temps close to 270ºF. So my question is what would be a good HTHS rating to keep the engine safe at these conditions? I was looking at penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 which apparently has an HTHS of 3.6 according to sources on here, and I was wondering if this was enough or if I should go for an oil with higher HTHS ratings. Thanks
Motul X-Cess GEN2 5W40 has HTHS 3.9. X-Cess 5W40 previous generation has HTHS 3.7. Are you looking approved LL01 or oil that is in that category? Castrol 0W40 has HTHS 3.7
Yes I am looking for an LL01 approved oil so the motul x-cess gen 2 would not work for me. I have also looked through the entire BMW TIS of approved oils and was just mainly looking for an LL01 oil that was capable of hard track use under extremely high oil temps of 270ºF. So I guess if I had to rephrase my question is would be: 1) What would the minimum HTHS that could handle 270ºF oil temps on hard track use without shearing? - This is probably a crappy question but I was just curious what range of HTHS I should be looking at. 2) How does penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 stack up against castrol edge 0w40 on the track or valvoline 0w40 full synthetic advanced? Because penzoil platnium euro is really easy for me to obtain and really cheap so I would like to use it, but if the specs are not good enough to handle my intended operating conditions then I will happily search for another oil. 3) What would be the best out of these 3: Valvoline full synthetic advanced 0w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.7), penzzoil platinum euro 5w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.6 according to BITOG), castrol 0w40 4) is the 5w40 verison of castrol edge any good I cannot remember if I read something about that version being bad on BITOG. 5) If you guys have any other LL01 approved oils with a high HTHS that is not too difficult to obtain please let me know I am all ears. Thanks again for helping a nooby like me out.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not approved oil for LL01, if he is looking for oils approved for LL01.
+1
1. I would agree with other that if you are tracking vehicle maybe you should consider running oil just for track? However, if you plan to keep same oil, and just play on track, than stay with regular oils. 2. Here is the thing. 270f is around 132c. Let's say 135c for the sake of argument. ASTM D4683 measures HTHS at 150c. At that temperature HTHS of Pennzoil is between 3.6 to 3.7. 3. Next, Motul X-Cess Gen2 is approved for LL01: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/news/products-innovation/motul-difference-xclean-xcess-gen2 4. Valvoline 0W40 is not approved, but only recommended for LL01, at least here in the US. Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle is approved for LL01. However, I personally would go with Pennzoil over Valvoline as Pennzoil is GTL based oil. 5. You can always run this too: https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-fs-x2-5w-50/ It has MB229.3, Porsche A40 approvals, it is 5W oil, and HTHS is 4.4. It would be my choice over 15W50 M1.
 
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Originally Posted by dlundblad
Go to Walmart and buy the first LL01 oil you find. Change it when you're done or get a used oil analysis so you see how far you can go. That one would be interesting.
That is the plan but with Canadian tire instead of walmart since walmart has a poor oil selection here.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here are some excerpts from the 2020 Corvette owners manual. They recommend Mobil 1 ESP 0W40 with a Dexos 2 specification or for their top Corvette, the ZR1, they suggest Mobil 1 15w50. Your BMW is off warranty, correct? These oils are not LL-01. Enjoy.
No my BMW is still under warranty till later this year. That oil is starting to get too thick, and with BMW bearing clearances being so tight I do not want to go past a 40 weight.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here are the specs for Mobil 1 15w50 which Chevrolet recommends for the C-7 ZR-1 Corvette.
Too thick, I do not want to risk excessive bearing wear.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
To the OP. LL-01 stands for Long Life. Why would you want a "Long Life" oil as a track oil? smile
Yes I am aware that LL is designated for long life. I wanted to use a LL01 oil because I would not have to flush out the oil loop when I went back to street driving. For example if I ran 300v I would have to flush out my oil loop before I hit the track to get the full benefits of 300v and not have traces of other oils in the loop, I also have a huge oil cooler that stores over 1.5 L of oil within it so there is a significant amount of residual oil in the car. This leads to the price of doing flushes being super high just for a track day, so if there are LL01 oils with an HTHS capable of track use I would like to stick with that. Also I want to stick with LL01 for street use since I suppose it is what BMW recommends and likely has a low enough NOACK I won't have to struggle with carbon build up as much, next it has all the correct additives for my car. I am not using this for long oil change intervals, my oil gets changed every 5k KM.
Originally Posted by Vladiator
Daily Driving - 0W40/5W40 year round. With track days - 15W50. Mobil 1 15W50 has a pour point of -38F and flash point of 450F. HTHS 4.5. LL-01 is just a robust oil for long intervals. With track days long intervals are a bad idea. So I'd give up the long intervals with LL-01 and concentrate on the robust part. In this case 15w50 will be a lot more robust as compared to 0w40.
Too thick, I can link you guys the bearing clearances on BMW TIS, but they are tight. BMW is notorious for doing this hence huge failures on the E9X m3, so I would prefer to stay at a 40 weight a t max.
Originally Posted by Marcozi
What does the owner's manual say for appropriate oils?
Absolutely nothing since BMW has crap owners manuals these days, but I have access to ISTA + which is the bmw factory diagnostics software and also have access to the online version. Here is the LL01 specced oils. https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f87-m2-cou/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1VnYpiUbyG
 
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OK, so you are still under warranty. Get that Motul or Pennzoil Platinum. I would personally tried to get Motul X-Cess for your application, Gen2 if possible.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lowon
Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not LL01 as aforementioned so I would prefer not to run that, otherwise I would be running their euro 5w40.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lowon
Hey guys I am a new member here and I just had a question about oils appropriate for track usage. I have a 2017 bmw m2 and I was looking at some LL01 oils that was useable on the street and track, I know that these engines get extremely hot at times and can see oil temps close to 270ºF. So my question is what would be a good HTHS rating to keep the engine safe at these conditions? I was looking at penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 which apparently has an HTHS of 3.6 according to sources on here, and I was wondering if this was enough or if I should go for an oil with higher HTHS ratings. Thanks
Motul X-Cess GEN2 5W40 has HTHS 3.9. X-Cess 5W40 previous generation has HTHS 3.7. Are you looking approved LL01 or oil that is in that category? Castrol 0W40 has HTHS 3.7
Yes I am looking for an LL01 approved oil so the motul x-cess gen 2 would not work for me. I have also looked through the entire BMW TIS of approved oils and was just mainly looking for an LL01 oil that was capable of hard track use under extremely high oil temps of 270ºF. So I guess if I had to rephrase my question is would be: 1) What would the minimum HTHS that could handle 270ºF oil temps on hard track use without shearing? - This is probably a crappy question but I was just curious what range of HTHS I should be looking at. 2) How does penzzoil platnium euro 5w40 stack up against castrol edge 0w40 on the track or valvoline 0w40 full synthetic advanced? Because penzoil platnium euro is really easy for me to obtain and really cheap so I would like to use it, but if the specs are not good enough to handle my intended operating conditions then I will happily search for another oil. 3) What would be the best out of these 3: Valvoline full synthetic advanced 0w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.7), penzzoil platinum euro 5w40 (LL01 and has an HTHS of 3.6 according to BITOG), castrol 0w40 4) is the 5w40 verison of castrol edge any good I cannot remember if I read something about that version being bad on BITOG. 5) If you guys have any other LL01 approved oils with a high HTHS that is not too difficult to obtain please let me know I am all ears. Thanks again for helping a nooby like me out.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Marco620
Call Dave at Redline Oil on monday. He can tell you what would be best.
Redline is not approved oil for LL01, if he is looking for oils approved for LL01.
+1
1. I would agree with other that if you are tracking vehicle maybe you should consider running oil just for track? However, if you plan to keep same oil, and just play on track, than stay with regular oils. 2. Here is the thing. 270f is around 132c. Let's say 135c for the sake of argument. ASTM D4683 measures HTHS at 150c. At that temperature HTHS of Pennzoil is between 3.6 to 3.7. 3. Next, Motul X-Cess Gen2 is approved for LL01: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/news/products-innovation/motul-difference-xclean-xcess-gen2 4. Valvoline 0W40 is not approved, but only recommended for LL01, at least here in the US. Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle is approved for LL01. However, I personally would go with Pennzoil over Valvoline as Pennzoil is GTL based oil. 5. You can always run this too: https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-fs-x2-5w-50/ It has MB229.3, Porsche A40 approvals, it is 5W oil, and HTHS is 4.4. It would be my choice over 15W50 M1.
1. I also have to ask this, is a full track oil suitable for street use with short oil change intervals? Does it have the proper additives to ensure my car doesn't see issues? I am not too worried about oil change intervals as a I normally do oil changes a 5000km every fall before winter storage. So will a track oil be able to sit through the winter? The whole reason why I do oil changes before storage and not after is to make sure no acidic dirty oil stays in the engine. 2. Do you reckon the HTHS rating of penzoil platnium euro is enough for track use? 3. I always refer to the bmw data base for LL01 approvals not the manufacture because some oil companies like ams oil and redline always have super misleading recommendations: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f87-m2-cou/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1VnYpiUbyG So GEN 2 is still not on the data base yet, but keeping in mind it does lag behind I would assume it is approved since motul doesn't make LL01 claims unless it is LL01. 4. Yes valvoline 0w40 is approved. Yeah I also prefer penzzoil 5. Too thick. But thank you for your insight. But if LL01 is not that important than something like redline 5w40 would be really good. Just curious how it would fair for long term useage on the street and winter storage. As long as it has the additives to keep my engine and turbo happy I will switch over. But I still do prefer a one size fits all oil for track and street if possible, so I do not have to keep flushing my oil loop when I switch oils.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
OK, so you are still under warranty. Get that Motul or Pennzoil Platinum. I would personally tried to get Motul X-Cess for your application, Gen2 if possible.
Thanks for your insight! I will take a look at gen 2 motul x-cess.
 
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Originally Posted by lowon
Originally Posted by edyvw
OK, so you are still under warranty. Get that Motul or Pennzoil Platinum. I would personally tried to get Motul X-Cess for your application, Gen2 if possible.
Thanks for your insight! I will take a look at gen 2 motul x-cess.
BMW TIS will lag behind. Motul GEN2 is brand new product. Motul is pretty straightforward with approvals. S55 will be good with thick stuff in it, but I would personally stick to W40 weight and highest possible HTHS. In this case that is Motul X-Cess GEN2. As for your questions about track specific oil, no I would not run that on track and street. Reason is emission system and additives track oil has. If track oil does not have any approval and it is advertised as strictly track, that means probably not suitable for regular use as it might damage emission system. In case of Redline, I know Redline is very good oil, and I personally use their gear oils. But, getting approval is cheap, and natural question is why no approval? I think answer is that Redline has package that is more suitable for track, and probably would not pass emission component testing if sent for approval.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by lowon
Originally Posted by edyvw
OK, so you are still under warranty. Get that Motul or Pennzoil Platinum. I would personally tried to get Motul X-Cess for your application, Gen2 if possible.
Thanks for your insight! I will take a look at gen 2 motul x-cess.
BMW TIS will lag behind. Motul GEN2 is brand new product. Motul is pretty straightforward with approvals. S55 will be good with thick stuff in it, but I would personally stick to W40 weight and highest possible HTHS. In this case that is Motul X-Cess GEN2. As for your questions about track specific oil, no I would not run that on track and street. Reason is emission system and additives track oil has. If track oil does not have any approval and it is advertised as strictly track, that means probably not suitable for regular use as it might damage emission system. In case of Redline, I know Redline is very good oil, and I personally use their gear oils. But, getting approval is cheap, and natural question is why no approval? I think answer is that Redline has package that is more suitable for track, and probably would not pass emission component testing if sent for approval.
Yes I know the TIS lags behind. I did a quick search and it looks really hard to get the motul. Let me check with LORDCO and see if they have it. I have an N55 since it is not an m2 compeition. But yes 40 weight at most for me. Is this question viable (again i am a nooby and I have zero clue if this question is dumb as [censored]) but what is the lowest HTHS that is going to be ok for my driving conditions on track. The reason why I ask is because penzoil platnium euro 5w40 is readily available for me at Canadian tire and is 1/3 the price of motul which is really hard to find. Does track oil damage the 02 sensors? If not then I should be fine with it since I do not have a cat. So as long as the additives are ok for the engine and turbo for street use then I am ok. Wait so is emissions the oil difference between a track oil and street oil? Does oxidation stability come into play since I will be store the car with fresh oil in it and I do not want it to go bad over winter.
 
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