Oil choices- 05 V6 Accord

[Yagenta13]

First, thanks to all of those who post here. I have been reading now for a few months(as an unregistered user) and have learned a ton!

After having read many of the opinions and tests on this site, I have basically narrowed my preffered oil down to two brands- Redline and Amsoil. My question is this- Without taking cost and extended drain intervals or convenience into account, which oil (of any brand but particularly the two above) will provide the best protection for my engine in terms of wear/long-life?

I have read many of the UOA's, opinions on Moly, esters versus other bases etc and I realize there is no ABSOLUTE one answer. However, for my engine and with focus simply on engine protection, I am curious as to what the resposes will be.

Some of my reasoning is this- Although I believe Amsoil is a great product, do they sacrifice some of the properties Redline may be better at just to offer a longer drain interval? Or does Redline offer better protection for a higher performance engine while sacrificing some things other oils do better for a "commuter" type engine engine?

I wanted to cut through some of the "smaller" details and just ask what oil out there, in your opinion of course, simply provides the best protection in its pure form (ie 3000 mi drain interval) without regard to any other factors like price etc.

Thanks in advance for the responses!

 

[The Critic]

First off,

I checked for the Accord's OCIs in the manual and it shows that the maintenance schedule is 3750/7500, severe/normal. Although you aren't interested in extended drains, its still good to keep this in mind.

It'd simply be a waste to run any quality synthetic for fewer than 5,000 miles. It won't give you better protection, in fact, shorter intervals of 4K on conventionals may yield you better wear, especially on this high copper Honda V6 at least during the earlier part of this engine's life.

The most important thing that you must do on this engine is to remove the factory fill early (1000-1500) with a high molybdenum oil such as Havoline 5W-20.

Using a quality conventional such as Havoline, Chevron, or Pennzoil in the 5W-20 flavor for 4K OCIs during the first 20K of the engine's life is a good idea, since you'd be wasting your money by pouring in a quality synthetic into an engine during wear-in, when you should be doing shorter drains.

Using a conventional motor oil will not compromise the life of your engine. Both types of oils when used correctly will have no advantage over the other, aside from convenience from the slightly longer intervals with synthetic.

Keep in mind that Amsoil has a tendency to thicken, and the high copper in this engine seems to make it worse. The copper seems to act as an oxidizing agent which leads to increased thickening. The Redline is also a very sensitive oil and is not "sucessful" in all applications. In some applications, it works well. In other applications, its terrible. You'll have to experiment, but I believe that Mobil 1 5W-20 is an excellent product that will protect your engine just as well, if not better.

Remember, don't forget to use a quality filter either. A PureOne, Amsoil, or M1 filter is what you'd want to use for the longer drains. But for shorter drains, a Supertech (Made in USA), STP, or a Purolator Premium Plus is a better bet.

For added protection from varnish or oxidation, use Lube Control (LC)/Fuel Power (FP) at the recommended dosage.

Michael

 

[Yagenta13]

Would Honda's 5w-20 also be a high Moly oil too? Otherwise I was thinking of changing the factory fill early with Redline since I understood that it had relatively high levels of Moly.

Thanks!

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yagenta13:
Would Honda's 5w-20 also be a high Moly oil too? Otherwise I was thinking of changing the factory fill early with Redline since I understood that it had relatively high levels of Moly.

Thanks!

---

I haven't seen an analysis of the SM formulation of the Honda 5W-20 yet. Essentially, the Honda 5W-20 is Exxon Superflo, which in its SL formulation, was in the mid-200ppm range in terms of molybdenum. The SM oils typically contain about 100ppm more, so the Havoline 5W-20 is a better bet.

How many miles do you have on the car right now?

Michael

 

[Eddie]

The first thing to do is read the owners manual and if the engineers recomend keeping the factory oil in for X miles do it. Most new engines from the factory, including Honda use antiwear coatings and oil supliments necessary for proper breakin. Then use a name brand oil (dino or syn) that meets the specifications that Honda recomends. Your owners manual is your friend.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eddie:
The first thing to do is read the owners manual and if the engineers recomend keeping the factory oil in for X miles do it. Most new engines from the factory, including Honda use antiwear coatings and oil supliments necessary for proper breakin. Then use a name brand oil (dino or syn) that meets the specifications that Honda recomends. Your owners manual is your friend.

---

Eddie,
The factory fill in a Honda is nothing more than 300ppm of Moly added to the oil. I myself, have posted 3 UOAs of the factory fill in 2004-2005 Acura TLs, and that's what I've found. There are MANY more analysis reports of the factory fill in Hondas in the UOA section, the ONLY thing they show is high moly.

Michael

 

[Yagenta13]

Car has just over 1500 Mi on it right now. To be honest, I've changed my mind a million times on whether or not to change out the factory fill early or not...and I'm still on the fence and think there are good arguments on both sides. I've even had different Honda techs tell me totally opposite things- one says don't touch it till 3700, the other says you can but it won't make much difference either way.

I'm probably leaning toward Redline at this point...unless this thread changes my mind

 

[andrews]

If your manual recommends keeping the factory fill in for 3k to 5k miles....DO IT! My CR-V manual said to do that, so that's what I did. I understood that according to Honda sources, the oil and engine manufacturing lubes, MUST stay in for that length of time for the necessary process of break-in to occur properly. If you go to various Honda message boards many people advise this and back it up with statements from either factory representatives or Honda company communications. Why take the chance?

 

[darryld13]

UOAs do not reveal all that is in an oil. Since they are not a broad spectrum analysis (they concentrate mainly on materials that indicate engine wear or oil contamination), you cannot determine the make up of an oil using them. For example, if Honda's break-in oil's secret ingredient was gold, you would not know from a UOA simply because UOAs are not geared for detecting gold.

My Honda dealer absolutely refused to change my oil until after 5K miles (my initial change was at 6K). I'm at 19K and have not consumed a drop of oil and my first analysis at 13K showed my engine was breaking in normally.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by andrews:
If your manual recommends keeping the factory fill in for 3k to 5k miles....DO IT! My CR-V manual said to do that, so that's what I did. I understood that according to Honda sources, the oil and engine manufacturing lubes, MUST stay in for that length of time for the necessary process of break-in to occur properly. If you go to various Honda message boards many people advise this and back it up with statements from either factory representatives or Honda company communications. Why take the chance?

---

Again, Honda factory fills contain a high moly content, and nothing else.

There are also quite a few people on this board who have changed out the factory fill prior to 1K, such as "ToyotaNSaturn" on this board, yet their engines haven't lost any peformance, nor have they leaked or burned any oil.

Honestly, you'd sometimes be amazed at how uneducated factory reps and dealers are about oils; all that they know how to do is reiterate to customers what the factory told them, which isn't always the best advice, contrary to popular belief.

One example of that is the 15K drains on BMW Group III synthetic recommended by BMW. Its purely a marketing gimmick. If you plan on keep your car longer than 50K, that is NOT something that you'd want to do. Its simply common sense. That stuff does a TERRIBLE job at keeping your engine clean, it leaves varnish and an oil cap deposit.

BTW, there is really NO point in putting Redline (RL) or any syn oil until wear-in is complete, or at least until the third fill. Wear metals typically take two-three oil changes before they drop to a normal level, even longer in a high copper Honda V6. That's why I recommended going with 4K OCIs on Havoline, Chevron, or Pennzoil 5W-20 for the first 20K or so.

Michael

 

[benjamming]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yagenta13:
Would Honda's 5w-20 also be a high Moly oil too? Otherwise I was thinking of changing the factory fill early with Redline since I understood that it had relatively high levels of Moly.

Thanks!

---

Redline recommends waiting until 1500-2000 miles to change to their oil. They do not recommend their oil for break-in.

What kind of driving do you do? A lot of city driving with short trips or open highway at long intervals?

 

[dustyjoe1]

quote:

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Would Honda's 5w-20 also be a high Moly oil too? Otherwise I was thinking of changing the factory fill early with Redline since I understood that it had relatively high levels of Moly.

---

If high moly is your selection criteria, perhaps you should consider Torco sr1 5w20.

 

[Yagenta13]

Most of my driving is highway. I actually drive the car very easy as I have done most cars I've had.

I was thinking of just changing the break in at 3750 with Honda's 5w-20 and then going to a synthetic after that.I was just saying that I am leaning toward Redline as my oil of choice AFTER the break-in.

I'm still curious as to opinions on my original question...I know it's easy to get involved in the factory fill change or not change controversy

but that is not really my main question.

 

[buster]

You don't need a HIGH MOLY oil! However, most 5w-20's have a good dose as a FM. I have a 2005 Accord and am leaving the factory oil in for at least 5k miles. Their is nothing wrong or bad about doing that. You guys are too paranoid.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yagenta13:
Most of my driving is highway. I actually drive the car very easy as I have done most cars I've had.

I was thinking of just changing the break in at 3750 with Honda's 5w-20 and then going to a synthetic after that.I was just saying that I am leaning toward Redline as my oil of choice AFTER the break-in.

I'm still curious as to opinions on my original question...I know it's easy to get involved in the factory fill change or not change controversy

but that is not really my main question.

---

Ok folks, I think the factory fill question is something that we can argue about until we die, so its up to the owner of this vehicle to decide for himself. Leaving it in for 7500 miles won't "kill" the engine, there is an UOA of a 2004 Honda Accord 4-cyl in the UOA section on a 13K run of Amsoil 0W-30 that had 60K+ on the engine. The wear was EXCELLENT!!! And guess what? The factory fill was left in for 10,000 MILES! And it was ran of Quick Lube oil for the next 7,000 MILES before switching to Amsoil. Any damage? Apparently not. But I personally DO NOT support leaving the factory fill in a vehicle past 2K, especially on a super high coppper Honda V6.

Back to the original question.

Since you drive primarily on the highway, conventional oils at 5K drains would be fine.

Here are my choices in order:

1. Mobil 1 5W-20 with LC/FP
2. Amsoil 0W-30 with LC/FP
3. Havoline 5W-20 with LC/FP

I think that the LC/FP is particularly important in the Amsoil since it should help reduce any thickening. The high copper is bad enough, since it is probably the major cause of thickening in this engine. The LC/FP combo will reduce the oxidation and the FP will lower the insolubles, which can cause thickening.

The Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 is an excellent buy at $75/case from msparks, since he is having a sale (everything at dealer cost) for the months of March/April. He's trying to qualify for the Direct Jobber title. If you do not like M1, this would be my next choice.

Michael

 

[pbm]

I changed the factory fill in my 01' Accord at 2000 miles and it doesn't burn a drop as I approach 40k. I normally change factory fill at about 1000 miles but left it in twice as long in my Honda because the manual said it was important.
I still feel safer getting it out early (at least by 3k).

 

[JHZR2]

Id drop out the hoinda factory fill at 3-4000, replace with a high moly oil like pennzoil or havoline 5w-20. At 9-10k, Id switch to M1 5w-20 and use that for ever and ever.

Be sure to get denso 'first time fit' or nippon brand filters (available at any online import parts discounter). The honda filters are very small and not all that great, IMO. The denso or nippons will have more capacity and will be a better put-together filter.

JMH

 

[John in the ATL]

Yagenta,

Keep in mind that the Redline 5w-20 is not an API "Starburst" oil and neither is Amsoil.

I believe that the Redline 5w-20 would be my choice but after 10k miles since the wear metals are generally higher at this point.

For short intervals, the Motorcraft (Conoco Hydroclear) 5w-20 is a superb oil at around $2 quart if you can find it.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Valvoline, Pennzoil or Castrol 5w30 synthetic blend for the next 4K.... then change to all synthetic.

 

[jthorner]

There is very little evidence for the theory that synthetic motor oils reduce engine wear when used for short drain intervals.

Do whatever you want, but I think you are simply throwing money away if you choose a synthetic oil and 3,000 mile OCIs which seems to be what the original posting implies.

I challenge anyone to come up with solid evidence that synthetic oils as a class provide lower engine wear than do any of the top rated conventional or blend oils at 3,000 mile OCIs in a Honda.

John