Oil Analysis on Jeep 3.0crd

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446
Location
California
Originally Posted By: Tikka
Hi Thank you all very much for helping me. Is it actually that important to have specific manufacturer approval rather than just meeting their specification? Millers are well respected in UK and we have an account with them at work where we use their lubricants and coolants hence they are easy to acquire. Pretty much any Oil is available over here. The American ones are more expensive for obvious reasons. Is there a good site where I can learn the meaning of all these E6,E7 CK-4/SN designations. They start to make my head spin after a while. Why is Phosphorous valuable etc. Many thanks. Tikka
Builder approvals usually cost money to get the certification. Some boutique oils and oils from small blenders aren't actually certified due to the costs involved. It's not economically practical to get the approval so they use words like "complies" or "meets", however no formal approval actually exists. The approval is required for warranty coverage if you have an oil related failure. Some oils, which do not have any formal approvals, could actually be superior to the one you are "supposed" to use. This is the heart of the controversy. Phosphourus is a very effective anti wear additive. It exists in 99.9% of all engine oils in the form of ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates), usually combined with Molybdenum or Antimony for a synergistic effect. Some HDEOs have more P than others. It is proven and has been around for years, except it can poison a catalytic converter before the warranty expires if your engine has an oil consumption problem. As a result, the levels of P are being reduced in all oils over the last 15 years. I prefer > 1000 PPM of P, E6 lubes are limited to < 800 PPM. CJ-4 and CK-4 are API diesel oil categories: https://www.api.org/products-and-service...el-c-categories ACEA E7, E9 and E6 are European oil specifications: https://www.lubrizol.com/Lubricant-and-Fuel-Additives/Engine-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-E6-16
 
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Messages
177
Location
England
Thread starter
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi In another thread I said I was concerned about the many short journeys my Jeep made and its effect on the Oil so I had it tested. I sent a sample of my Oil away for analysis. My analysis was not as comprehensive as your Blackstone ones but I will type in what I can and would welcome any comments. The company that did the analysis was Millers in UK. Not sure if you lads have heard of them. Oil was in vehicle 6 months and covered 4000 miles. PETRONAS Syntium 5w/30 Density @ 15.5c (g/ml) 0.855 Viscocity @ 100c (cSt) 12.00 cSt Calcium (%) 0.261 Zinc (%) 0.119 Wear Metals in ppm Cr 1 Pb 0 Ni 1 Sn 0 B 60 Fe 28 Mo 5 Si 9 V 0 Al 4 Cu 2 Na 10 Analysis reveals Oil to be in good condition and suitable for further use. We would advise change at 12 months.( Millers comment) Any comments from the Forum most welcome.
Hi Gents I will add my next analysis to the above one and welcome any comments. This UOA follows the above one by nine months and 5,000 miles. Oil Type......Engine Oil Product Name ......Petronus 5W-30 Mileage on this Oil ......5000 Appearance ......Black opaque [email protected] (g/ml) 0,865 [email protected] (cSt) 12.06 Calcium (%) 0.154 Zinc (&) 0.092 Nitration No Oxidation No Fuel Dilation 0% Soot 1.5% WEAR METALS PPM CR 1 PB 0 Ni 1 Sn 1 B 113 Fe 28 Mo 116 Si 12 V 0 Al 7 Cu 2 Na 4 Comments from Analyst......Cautionary soot levels. Satisfactory wear metals. I did note how different the Moly and Boron levels were between the two samples. I suspect they may be different oils regardless of the Jeep dealer saying both times PETRONAS 5W-30 was used. I would be grateful for any comments on all of the above. Many thanks.
 
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196
Location
Europe
Can you shed some more light on your driving habits? Petronas Syntium has several versions in 5w-30 ,under 229.5 and MB 229.51;52 : https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevo...isten&suchbegriff=petronas%20syntium The first UOA looks like being with 229.5 Syntium 5w-30, the second-with 229.51/52 . I would look into the 1.5% soot content -it's on the high side for just 5000 miles. Ever checked or serviced the Fuel Injection system? How is the EGR ? With this soot % I'd hate to push the OCI any further on a timing chain equipped small displacement engine and address the possible cause first. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2122499 Since the engine lacks DPF ex-factory you have a wide range of oil choices - from HDEO's to ACEA C3 MB 229.51/52 . https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf Some excellent 228.51 5w-30 oils are available in UK - among them Delvac 1 LE 5w-30; Shell Rimula R6LME 5w-30 ; Castrol (renamed again !) Vecton line of HDEO's etc. (the Delvac 1 LE was factory-fill in MB vans and R6LME is in MAN Euro 6 HD engines). https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/1cdfb4f4-18c7-4822-84b4-438bdb66932a.pdf Millers product above is not on the official MB approval list (it's "meet or exceeds" situation, it may be a good product but I'd stick to the major companies' products) .
 
Messages
177
Location
England
Thread starter
Originally Posted by Rollins
Can you shed some more light on your driving habits? Petronas Syntium has several versions in 5w-30 ,under 229.5 and MB 229.51;52 : https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevo...isten&suchbegriff=petronas%20syntium The first UOA looks like being with 229.5 Syntium 5w-30, the second-with 229.51/52 . I would look into the 1.5% soot content -it's on the high side for just 5000 miles. Ever checked or serviced the Fuel Injection system? How is the EGR ? With this soot % I'd hate to push the OCI any further on a timing chain equipped small displacement engine and address the possible cause first. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2122499 Since the engine lacks DPF ex-factory you have a wide range of oil choices - from HDEO's to ACEA C3 MB 229.51/52 . https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf Some excellent 228.51 5w-30 oils are available in UK - among them Delvac 1 LE 5w-30; Shell Rimula R6LME 5w-30 ; Castrol (renamed again !) Vecton line of HDEO's etc. (the Delvac 1 LE was factory-fill in MB vans and R6LME is in MAN Euro 6 HD engines). https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/1cdfb4f4-18c7-4822-84b4-438bdb66932a.pdf Millers product above is not on the official MB approval list (it's "meet or exceeds" situation, it may be a good product but I'd stick to the major companies' products) .
Hi My driving is mostly short journeys of just a few miles with the occasional long journey. The oil shows no sign of fuel contamination and engine runs perfectly so I guess the injectors are fine. Not sure about the EGR. Everything runs fine and I have no exhaust smoke. I always run Shell V Power Diesel too. I would sincerely hope a Jeep main dealer would use an oil of the correct MB229.51 spec although the invoice just says PETRONAS Syntium 5w-30. Who knows what they do though. I have had the Jeep serviced since the analysis so that dirty oil is out. Thanks for the help.
 
Messages
177
Location
England
Thread starter
Hi Gents Anyone any ideas as to why the large differences in the Boron and Moly readings in the two reports above? Seems odd to me. Are 'high' Boron and Moly a good or bad thing? Thanks, Tikka
 
Messages
1,057
Location
WV
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by Tikka
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Fe is at 7ppm/1k miles. I don't have a lot of data on this engine. While not a great wear rate, it's acceptable and may well be "normal" for this engine series.
Hi It is a Mercedes OM642 engine without dpf if that helps. What Fe would you like to see? Tikka.
Like I said - I don't have substantial data on this engine series. Most engines I've seen shed 5ppm/1k miles or less. However there are some that tend to shed more; another example would be the little TDI engines from VW. You'll have to see if you can find macro data from many sources for this engine; I don't have any. You ask what I'd like to see? Whatever "normal" is. It just seems to me that 7ppm/1k is high; don't see that typically.
I have an OM642 that is supposed to go 10k oci's. Once I went 9500 on Mobil 15-40M and my test came back showing a 7ppm/1000mi iron level. The tbn was 2. I didn't like that so don't go over 7k oic's. The last uoa I did was at 7500 miles and it dropped to less than 6ppm per 1k. I did tow a motorcycle trailer during that run across the country. I've switched to Valvoline MST 5-40 so I need to test that oil. Started to believe that Mobil 1= high iron business.
 
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