Oil Analysis on Jeep 3.0crd

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214
Location
England
Hi In another thread I said I was concerned about the many short journeys my Jeep made and its effect on the Oil so I had it tested. I sent a sample of my Oil away for analysis. My analysis was not as comprehensive as your Blackstone ones but I will type in what I can and would welcome any comments. The company that did the analysis was Millers in UK. Not sure if you lads have heard of them. Oil was in vehicle 6 months and covered 4000 miles. PETRONAS Syntium 5w/30 Density @ 15.5c (g/ml) 0.855 Viscocity @ 100c (cSt) 12.00 cSt Calcium (%) 0.261 Zinc (%) 0.119 Wear Metals in ppm Cr 1 Pb 0 Ni 1 Sn 0 B 60 Fe 28 Mo 5 Si 9 V 0 Al 4 Cu 2 Na 10 Analysis reveals Oil to be in good condition and suitable for further use. We would advise change at 12 months.( Millers comment) Any comments from the Forum most welcome.
 
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148
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Samara, Russia
Originally Posted By: Tikka
PETRONAS Syntium 5w/30
??? Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 RN 5W-30 (C4, 226.51, 229.51, RN0720) Petronas SYNTIUM 3000 FR 5W-30 (SN, A5/B5, WSS-M2C913-D) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 CP 5W-30 (SN, C2, PSA B71 2290) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 FR 5W-30 (SN, A5/B5, WSS-M2C913-D) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 XS 5W-30 (SN, C3, 229.51) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 AV 5W-30 (SM, C3, 504/507, 229.51)
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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8,459
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Indianapolis, IN
Fe is at 7ppm/1k miles. I don't have a lot of data on this engine. While not a great wear rate, it's acceptable and may well be "normal" for this engine series.
 

Tikka

Thread starter
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214
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England
Originally Posted By: Gubkin
Originally Posted By: Tikka
PETRONAS Syntium 5w/30
??? Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 RN 5W-30 (C4, 226.51, 229.51, RN0720) Petronas SYNTIUM 3000 FR 5W-30 (SN, A5/B5, WSS-M2C913-D) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 CP 5W-30 (SN, C2, PSA B71 2290) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 FR 5W-30 (SN, A5/B5, WSS-M2C913-D) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 XS 5W-30 (SN, C3, 229.51) Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 AV 5W-30 (SM, C3, 504/507, 229.51)
Hi Gubkin You pose a good question that I cant answer. My Jeep dealer just stated PETRONAS syntium 5w/30 on the service invoice. Due to the engine I am guessing it will be one of the above with the MB229.51 spec. Tikka.
 

Tikka

Thread starter
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214
Location
England
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Fe is at 7ppm/1k miles. I don't have a lot of data on this engine. While not a great wear rate, it's acceptable and may well be "normal" for this engine series.
Hi It is a Mercedes OM642 engine without dpf if that helps. What Fe would you like to see? Tikka.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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8,459
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Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Tikka
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Fe is at 7ppm/1k miles. I don't have a lot of data on this engine. While not a great wear rate, it's acceptable and may well be "normal" for this engine series.
Hi It is a Mercedes OM642 engine without dpf if that helps. What Fe would you like to see? Tikka.
Like I said - I don't have substantial data on this engine series. Most engines I've seen shed 5ppm/1k miles or less. However there are some that tend to shed more; another example would be the little TDI engines from VW. You'll have to see if you can find macro data from many sources for this engine; I don't have any. You ask what I'd like to see? Whatever "normal" is. It just seems to me that 7ppm/1k is high; don't see that typically.
 
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Messages
528
Location
Kelowna, BC, Canada
Here's a comparison for your OM642 with 18000 kms on a Rotella T6 5W40 and the emissions still attached. Mixed city driving with the occasional road trip to burn out the DPF. High Potassium and Boron due to Archoil.
 

Tikka

Thread starter
Messages
214
Location
England
Hi Many thanks for the comparison test and helping me out. Your Fe levels are fantastic compared to mine. Could mine be down to the many cold starts over a relatively short period of time? I am guessing cold starts and warm up is where most wear happens? I note they give 70ppm universal average. Is that for this engine type or all engines? The blackstone test is much more thorough than the millers I notice you use an additive, Archoil. I had been led to believe all additives were snake oil. How much of the excellent test results do you put down the additive or the Rotella? I have no DPF so I am edging toward using a HDEO like the rotella or delvac. Tikka.
 
Messages
528
Location
Kelowna, BC, Canada
Possible the cold starts and short trips may contribute to your Fe, but I can't confirm that. The Universal averages of 70 are for the OM642 engine in a 17000 km service. I tried Archoil in 3 of my diesels and ran them to see if it would lower wear rates compared to averages, but it did nothing to reduce the wear that I could find. I think my rates are lower possibly due more to being garage kept and more highway miles than the oil I'm using. You could try Rotella or Delvac and see if that improves your wear rates, it would be interesting if it does. Unfortunately my wife sold the Jeep and replaced it with a Ford Explorer, so I no longer have it.:( Cheers Harling
 
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446
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California
Archoil 9100 is an expensive additive and I believe blackstone noted on another UOA that there wasn’t any proven reduction in wear. I do believe Liqui Moly 2009 additive does reduce startup wear and is safe to use in most oils as it is a solid held in suspension. There is an article about it on here somewhere. It I is also relatively cheap. As I said in your other thread, amongst much disagreement from the pro low-saps crowd, stay away from the low-saps MB oils and try a synthetic E7, E9, CJ-4 or CK-4 lube also called an HDEO. Rotella T6, Delvac ESP, Ravenol NDT and any of the Amsoil HDEOs should work well depending on what is available in England.
 
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446
Location
California
Originally Posted By: Tikka
Hi CUN MB 228.51 instead of 229.51? This is readily available. http://www.millersoils.co.uk/source/datasheets/Trucksynth-EE-5w30.pdf I have it serviced by jeep dealer who use the PETRONAS 229.51 C3 stuff. I may have to speak to them. Tikka.
That millers oil is a low ash E6 lube. The P is limited to 800 ppm on E6. A proper HDEO will be E7, E9, CJ-4 and CK-4. I beleive the MB spec is 228.31. These are usually available in synthetic 10w30, 0w40, 15w40 and 5w40. There may be some 5w30 options too. Might be worth a try since your wear numbers weren’t so great. A tune the turns off the EGR would also improve performance and extend the engines longevity.
 
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446
Location
California
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
A proper HDEO will be E7, E9, CJ-4 and CK-4.
Just for reference, all those specifications can be had in conjunction with E6.
Yes, in fact the Millers 5w30 is all three. However I said E6 limits the P to 800 ppm, whereas E7 and E9 have a higher limit. I believe most E7 / E9 HDEOs have about 1000-1200 ppm of P. Exclusion of E6 certification means it will have higher P which is what I was trying to say. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Tikka, These guys do emissions intact tuning for the OM642 here in the states. They may be able to program a tune for you that throttles or shuts off EGR flow. They do extensive testing and R&D on their software, more so than most aftermarket tuners. This will reduce engine wear and improve economy/performance of your vehicle. http://www.greendieselengineering.com/Engine-Tune/1_31_-1_-1.action
 
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Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
A proper HDEO will be E7, E9, CJ-4 and CK-4.
Just for reference, all those specifications can be had in conjunction with E6.
Yes, in fact the Millers 5w30 is all three.
The oil does not show up on any lists as having actual approvals, at least not that I could find. If it is indeed does not carry any of the approvals listed then that's one of the most deceptive SDS I've seen. On some of their other literature the "approvals" are listed under a heading of "Performance Profile."
 
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28,129
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Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
However I said E6 limits the P to 800 ppm, whereas E7 and E9 have a higher limit. I believe most E7 / E9 HDEOs have about 1000-1200 ppm of P. Exclusion of E6 certification means it will have higher P which is what I was trying to say. Perhaps I wasn't clear.
Yes. Well, technically, no E6 certification can still result in reduced phosphorus, in a 10w-30, 5w-30, or 0w-30 HDEO that is CK-4/SN. My real point in replying was where you said a "proper HDEO...." An E6 is a proper HDEO, and they often have a whack of builder approvals. I'm even using one of those lubes now. wink
 

Tikka

Thread starter
Messages
214
Location
England
Hi Thank you all very much for helping me. Is it actually that important to have specific manufacturer approval rather than just meeting their specification? Millers are well respected in UK and we have an account with them at work where we use their lubricants and coolants hence they are easy to acquire. Pretty much any Oil is available over here. The American ones are more expensive for obvious reasons. Is there a good site where I can learn the meaning of all these E6,E7 CK-4/SN designations. They start to make my head spin after a while. Why is Phosphorous valuable etc. Many thanks. Tikka
 
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