New Bridgestone Blizzak WS90

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Considering WS80 lateral ice performance, not surprising they replaced it so fast. Edit: Design looks like DM-V2.
 
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SubLGT

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Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
 
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Originally Posted by SubLGT
Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
Not to mention, Michelin has a dual layer technology also, from the Alpin 6.
 
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Originally Posted by SubLGT
Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
Would this compound still last 40k like the xi3?
 
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Originally Posted by SubLGT
Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
Question is whether they need to? Xi3 has full winter compound unlike Blizzak and proved to be better rounded tire. I think WS90 is an attempt to bite into market of Xi3. I had DM-V2 on X5 which is same generation as WS80, and than Xi2, and although Xi2 is generation older than DM-V2, it proved better than DM-V2, especially in ice, dry and wet. Longevity is actually not comparable. I am afraid that Bridgestone is hardening tread block for longevity while still keeping dual compound. That harder tread, what effect will it have in ice and snow?
 

SubLGT

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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by SubLGT
Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
Question is whether they need to?....
The Xi3 is lagging behind its competitors in ice traction and slush planing resistance, at the very least. In the 2015 "NAF Test" (performed at the professional tire testing facility Test World in Finland) the Xi3 ranked in 2nd place overall. Fast forward to 2018, and it ranked only 7th place overall. The 2018 NAF summary comments from NAF for the Xi3 (translated from Norwegian by Google):
Quote
Very poor results on snow and ice. Especially the side grip is poor, it steers inexperienced and is understaffed. The impression changes sharply on asphalt, and especially in the wet, where the tire - both objectively and subjectively - is second best. Quiet and stable under these conditions.
Here are the 2018 NAF comments about the WS80:
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Best result of everyone in the important moment braking on dry asphalt. Also very good driving feel on the dry road. Among the better stud-free tires during braking on snow and ice. Quiet and stable behavior with predictable understeer. Decent on noise.
Here are the 2018 NAF comments about the Nokian R3
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Close behind the very best on snow and ice. Stable and good steering feeling. Among the best in wet conditions, but below average for the studless on dry surfaces. The driving feeling is safe and predictable regardless of the surface. Pleasant low noise level.
https://www.naf.no/forbrukertester/dekktester/vinterdekktest-2018/ http://www.testworld.fi
 
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Originally Posted by SubLGT
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by SubLGT
Hey Michelin, wake up hornets Will you ever come out with a successor to the "aged" Xi3? You have this "advanced rubber compound" in your new studded tire that has a glass transition temperature of -85f ! Sounds perfect for a XIce Xi4.
Question is whether they need to?....
The Xi3 is lagging behind its competitors in ice traction and slush planing resistance, at the very least. In the 2015 "NAF Test" (performed at the professional tire testing facility Test World in Finland) the Xi3 ranked in 2nd place overall. Fast forward to 2018, and it ranked only 7th place overall. The 2018 NAF summary comments from NAF for the Xi3 (translated from Norwegian by Google):
Quote
Very poor results on snow and ice. Especially the side grip is poor, it steers inexperienced and is understaffed. The impression changes sharply on asphalt, and especially in the wet, where the tire - both objectively and subjectively - is second best. Quiet and stable under these conditions.
Here are the 2018 NAF comments about the WS80:
Quote
Best result of everyone in the important moment braking on dry asphalt. Also very good driving feel on the dry road. Among the better stud-free tires during braking on snow and ice. Quiet and stable behavior with predictable understeer. Decent on noise.
Here are the 2018 NAF comments about the Nokian R3
Quote
Close behind the very best on snow and ice. Stable and good steering feeling. Among the best in wet conditions, but below average for the studless on dry surfaces. The driving feeling is safe and predictable regardless of the surface. Pleasant low noise level.
https://www.naf.no/forbrukertester/dekktester/vinterdekktest-2018/ http://www.testworld.fi
Sure, but I am talking from buyers perspective. Also, I know Michelin will have very similar performance next winter, not so sure about Nokian based on these R2's I have. Slushing is an issue for Xi3, due to packed design. But we are talking here about lower 48 states. How much time one spends constantly driving on snow, ice and in slush? That is the issue, the compromise between dry, wet roads that drivers drive on most of the time, and occasional snow storms. Even I who spends a lot of time on the slopes, like good balanced tire that has good behavior in all conditions. I went yesterday over Loveland Pass at 11,500ft during snow storm with my Xi2 on Toyota and cannot say they are any less confident in it than R2, WS70, LM60, DM-V2 I used over that same pass on different vehicles. What is clear is that wearing of Xi2 (which I was very skeptical about as Overkill knows) is not noticeable after some 5000 miles this winter and that they behave like good A/S tire in dry and wet, which cannot be said for R2, and something that WS70 and DM-V2 struggled with. In the end, WS90 is introduced even per Bridgestone testimony to increase life, but question is whether there will be drop in performance.
 

SubLGT

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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a26038430/bridgestone-blizzak-ws90-tire-drive/
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Both on its own and against the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 and Continental WinterContact SI, both of which outscored the WS80 in our last winter-tire test, the WS90 proved to be a serious snowshoe. All of the tires on our drive were fitted to similar front-wheel-drive Toyota Camry sedans. Through a handful of choreographed exercises, the new WS90 backed up Bridgestone's claim of superior ice grip, both in acceleration and braking, by besting the Michelin over a zero-to-10-mph-to-zero sprint on an inactive ice-skating rink. And on the groomed-snow tracks of Bridgestone's Winter Driving School—now in its 35th year in Steamboat Springs—the latest Blizzak exhibited a reassuringly strong turn-in bite into corners on packed snow, as well as a confidence-inspiring level of stability and feedback as we gently drifted around the school's higher-speed handling course. Unusually poor weather conditions limited our track time and prevented us from experiencing the new tire on the street, but the WS90 showed none of the sudden-breakaway behavior at the limit that we've noted of its WS80 predecessor—which still remains an excellent winter-weather ally. Bridgestone's directional WS90 is a fitting evolution, and we're anxious to expose it to a more thorough barrage of real-world conditions on at least one of our long-term vehicles next winter.
 
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Quote
but the WS90 showed none of the sudden-breakaway behavior at the limit that we've noted of its WS80 predecessor
This is main reason for such quick update to WS80. WS90 will still lack longevity of Xi3, but this was seriously apparent on my DM-V2 which is same generation as WS80. Also, in talk to my skier friends that use(d) WS80, they were seriously disappointed with them compared to previous generation of WS models.
 
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I think blizzak's have given up a lot of awesome winter traction with every generation since I had 3 different sets of WS15's going back to 1996. They keep gravitating towards an all-season tire trying to keep everyone happy when it's not snowing.
 
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Originally Posted by Traction
I think blizzak's have given up a lot of awesome winter traction with every generation since I had 3 different sets of WS15's going back to 1996. They keep gravitating towards an all-season tire trying to keep everyone happy when it's not snowing.
Making tire that is really good in snow is easy. Making tire that has great snow/ice performance, and still decent wet and dry performance is hard. It does not snow every day, and tires with extreme snow performance can be equally dangerous on wet/dry.
 
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Originally Posted by Traction
I think blizzak's have given up a lot of awesome winter traction with every generation since I had 3 different sets of WS15's going back to 1996. They keep gravitating towards an all-season tire trying to keep everyone happy when it's not snowing.
I agree... I remember when I had WS50s on my 1998 FWD CR-V... it really felt secure in bad winter situations.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Question is whether they need to? Xi3 has full winter compound unlike Blizzak and proved to be better rounded tire. I think WS90 is an attempt to bite into market of Xi3. I had DM-V2 on X5 which is same generation as WS80, and than Xi2, and although Xi2 is generation older than DM-V2, it proved better than DM-V2, especially in ice, dry and wet. Longevity is actually not comparable. I am afraid that Bridgestone is hardening tread block for longevity while still keeping dual compound. That harder tread, what effect will it have in ice and snow?
First off blizzak has regular winter compound under the multicell compound.. Not sure I understand what you meant? What exactly is full winter compound. Also Xi3 and latitude xi2 are same time frame both newer than regular xi2.
 
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Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by edyvw
Question is whether they need to? Xi3 has full winter compound unlike Blizzak and proved to be better rounded tire. I think WS90 is an attempt to bite into market of Xi3. I had DM-V2 on X5 which is same generation as WS80, and than Xi2, and although Xi2 is generation older than DM-V2, it proved better than DM-V2, especially in ice, dry and wet. Longevity is actually not comparable. I am afraid that Bridgestone is hardening tread block for longevity while still keeping dual compound. That harder tread, what effect will it have in ice and snow?
First off blizzak has regular winter compound under the multicell compound.. Not sure I understand what you meant? What exactly is full winter compound. Also Xi3 and latitude xi2 are same time frame both newer than regular xi2.
Blizzak's except some LM series turn into all season compound at 6/32. I worn down my DM-V2 to 6/32 and they were useless in snow and ice after that. LM60 I had had full winter compound (were wearing out like crazy) and Blizzaks like LM32, 001 same thing.
 
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