Motorcycle Oil Comparo

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Yeah turned out to be but its independantly written and is quite a good paper. It doesn't seem to be biased like you'd expect. There was only 1 amsoil product amoungst 20 or more oils, some which were just as good as Amsoil!
 
Ok, so I'll bite. What's the big slam on Amsoil? I've noticed that usually there is a rather vocal contingent on BITOG that seems to roll their eyes whenever the "A" word is mentioned. I was actually thinking of looking into purchasing some of the product line. Is there some bit of salient information that I'm missing?
 
There are folks who don't appreciate their MLM sales strategy for whatever reason. Then there are those who don't like the ole 4 ball wear test comparos that Amsoil has in their literature. Bottom line is that Amsoil is a good synthetic oil that performs well in many applications and deserves consideration based on performance and price, just like any other oil. Best to deal with experienced dealers such as the site sponsors here and get real, useful information and not the hype so common from the legions of inexperienced and aggressive dealers so common everywhere. I'm sure they mean well, but some just flat out have wrong info. I like being able to order what I need while sitting in front of my computer, and then have it show up on a pallet at the shop 2 days later. No driving to or waiting in line at Sam's Club, Costco, or Wal-mart.
 
I give Amsoil credit for at least testing against other brands. I don't know of another oil company doing that.

Those that use Amsoil almost always report nothing but great things about it.
 
Interesting that the M1 V-Twin thinned, then thickened (a little).

buster, I know that Castrol Oz used Mobil 1 15W-50 as their "baseline" for testing around 5 years ago. Obviously didn't publish results.
 
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Yeah turned out to be but its independantly written and is quite a good paper. It doesn't seem to be biased like you'd expect.

Click to expand...

Were did you get that the report was independantly written?
Amsoil does this every couple of years or so, as a regular part of their marketing campaign.
I would be much more interested in a report that they actually did have conducted by an idependant lab that used only controlled samples, and conducted by a certified tester. "I swear by all that's good, the tests are valid" (pleeeease...)

When they decide to actually use an idependant lab once, they may turn some more heads.

Also note they left out the remainder of their results in the MA/MB certification part. Wonder why? aren't the JASO standards supposed to be the jelly roll for motorcycles?
Why such an important test result only half covered?
Or could it be like many have been finding out all along...JASO MA standards are more hype than they are worth?
IMO, the touting of MA standard oil is nothing but another reason to elevate pricing. Can't have the consumer knowing the truth now, can we?

I have always contended that these types of reads are intersting at best...or a good way to pass the time when on the throne. But, these types of in-house testing results do nothing to show how a fluid will actually perform in the real world, on real applications.
dunno.gif

The element lab and the micrometer are the only things that can really do that.
 
I have been using Mobil 1 15W-50 auto oil in my BMW boxer since its first oil change (800 miles, now with 35,000 miles) with good success. And, while I have not done UOAs yet, the Mob 1 at 8000 miles intervals is fine. Oil use is about 1 cup during the OCIs, mileage is fine, plugs are clean and the CAT is not damaged with high ZDDP.

Of course, there are other fine oils for motorcycles but, M 1 is available, priced OK and works well year 'round in the Houston climate.

During a motorcycle mags oil comparison article several years ago, the M 1 did very well in all categories.
 
Quote:

Were did you get that the report was independantly written?
Amsoil does this every couple of years or so, as a regular part of their marketing campaign.
I would be much more interested in a report that they actually did have conducted by an idependant lab that used only controlled samples, and conducted by a certified tester. "I swear by all that's good, the tests are valid" (pleeeease...)

When they decide to actually use an idependant lab once, they may turn some more heads.

Also note they left out the remainder of their results in the MA/MB certification part. Wonder why? aren't the JASO standards supposed to be the jelly roll for motorcycles?
Why such an important test result only half covered?
Or could it be like many have been finding out all along...JASO MA standards are more hype than they are worth?
IMO, the touting of MA standard oil is nothing but another reason to elevate pricing. Can't have the consumer knowing the truth now, can we?

I have always contended that these types of reads are intersting at best...or a good way to pass the time when on the throne. But, these types of in-house testing results do nothing to show how a fluid will actually perform in the real world, on real applications.
dunno.gif

The element lab and the micrometer are the only things that can really do that.

Click to expand...


Not in-house - the testing for the white paper was done by Southwest Research. It cost AMSOIL more than $30,000. SwRI pulled the products off the retail shelf. Standardized tests allow product comparison. The affidavit means only what it says - that the test results are on hand, and the data matches the test results.

The industry is well aware that no two devices wear the same - even when standardized fuel, atmospheric conditions, test protocol, etc. are followed in a lab. Street use is even less realistic. Yes - real world is where the equipment runs - but this type of data is only good for that piece of equipment operated under those conditions. Comparing products is next to impossible 'on the street'.
 
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Not in-house - the testing for the white paper was done by Southwest Research. It cost AMSOIL more than $30,000. SwRI pulled the products off the retail shelf.

Click to expand...

Call me the skeptic...but if what you claim is true, then why did Amsoil not include this information along with the report? Not one mention of what you are claiming. Btw..how did you get the information you provided? Does one need to pony up the $20 and know the secret handshake before such pertinent information is provided?

Again call me the skeptic, but with that many oils, and that many ASTM test procedures, Amsoil must have a 2fer or some type of special pricing with the lab. I doubt 30k would have paid for what this paper shows.
And again, why would they not mention the fact that these were run at an idependant lab?
This was all I saw...besides the affadavit, and I also think that an affadavit from the independant lab would have been in order.
Quote:

The testing used to evaluate the lubricants was done in accordance with American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)
procedures. Test methodology has been indicated for all data points, allowing for duplication and verification by any analytical
laboratory capable of conducting the ASTM tests. A notarized affidavit certifying compliance with ASTM methodology
and the accuracy of the test results is included in the appendix of this document.

Click to expand...


Any independant lab testing that I have been involved with, the testers have no problems at all with backing up their work and certifying it. Either Southwest has a problem with certifying this battery of tests, or they did not infact conduct them.
I highly suspect that latter, as this has been a regular presentation by Amsoil for a few years now.

Disclaimer: I have no intentions of bad mouthing Amsoil products. It is their marketing practices that I question. And for anyone to deny they are the kings of shady and misleading marketing practices, are only fooling themselves.

(why do I feel like I have just thrown my personal opinion into the lions den?...oh well
dunno.gif
)
 
Jaybird - call AMSOIL and ask them how they got their data. Technical Support:
(715) 399-TECH. Let us know the person you spoke with and what they said.

I admire that AMSOIL will compare their products to the competition by name. I am not aware that the other oil companies do this. Do they not also claim they make the best products but offer no name comparisons? This report has been out and well known for a year now and I hear no rebuttal from the named companies. Since these are ASTM test methods that many labs can run, you would think if the tests were incorrect, someone would have sued AMSOIL, exposed them as a fraud, or at least said something by now. Since their competition has had lots of time to review these test results and said nothing, I feel the data is likely correct.

I think well publicised data like this makes the other oil compainies take a look at their own products to see what improvements they need to make. When they start getting close to AMSOIL, I think AMSOIL will reformulate to make their products even better. We consumers win in these situations.
 
Quote:

Ok, so I'll bite. What's the big slam on Amsoil? I've noticed that usually there is a rather vocal contingent on BITOG that seems to roll their eyes whenever the "A" word is mentioned. I was actually thinking of looking into purchasing some of the product line. Is there some bit of salient information that I'm missing?

Click to expand...


There is a (somewhat tempered) hatred of Amsoil here by a few. Steve S likes to get his slams in. It's not just him. But they do have a built in bias. But amazingly, just once in awhile they acknowledge the superiority EaO/EaA filters or that the gear oils are decent or that Amsoil has a good line-up of products.

Yes some people don't like the marketing. And that is the most biased, skewed, bent thinking - some of these folks even view themselves as open minded. However - I can see how this opinion was formed. Many Amsoil dealers are very pushy and very "droid" like. Never really learning about oils, just spouting Amsoil rah-rah stuff. One reason I love BiTOG is that we throw the bums off the site if they are going over the top or are trying to make sales. Just saying Amsoil is good and not backing your words up - or posting an Amsoil link without discussion is verboten. Also posting a Z0#'d link or posting an Amsoil dealer site will get you banned if you are not a paying site sponsor.


Some guys here can't get over the fact that not everything in the world needs to be middle manned and sold in a storefront. Some even make up stuff and say it's a pyramid or even a ponzi scheme - I just think some people HAVE to hate something. People do get over it and actually buy from me and find out the stuff arrives in a day or two and I never actually contact them unless they ask or contact me first. Nothing pushy. Some folks actually find out that shipping doesn't cost that much.

I love the product changes from Amsoil. They are real quality. I don't have to be pushy with quality products but I do need to step in to stop false hatred.
 
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Any independant lab testing that I have been involved with, the testers have no problems at all with backing up their work and certifying it. Either Southwest has a problem with certifying this battery of tests, or they did not infact conduct them.
I highly suspect that latter, as this has been a regular presentation by Amsoil for a few years now.

Disclaimer: I have no intentions of bad mouthing Amsoil products. It is their marketing practices that I question. And for anyone to deny they are the kings of shady and misleading marketing practices, are only fooling themselves.

Click to expand...



SWRI has no problem doing this - but Amsoil's decision to not include SWRI's seal of approval on ALL their testing is mainly to keep the Amsoil questions to Amsoil - NOT have J.Q. Public contacting SWRI for questions about the testing and oils, etc. It's as simple as that.

You have no proof that Amsoil "are the kings of shady and misleading marketing practices" - other than your thought patterns. Sure it's fine to be skeptical but to say other people are "fooling themselves" about Amsoil is just wrong. I'm sure you don't use whatever lube you choose because of the company's marketing ads - but do you think Mobil, Castrol, Redline, Royal Purple etc have perfect straight forward ads? So you are fooling yourself as well.

Choose the oil you want.
 
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but do you think Mobil, Castrol, Redline, Royal Purple etc have perfect straight forward ads

Click to expand...


Nope, they don't. The only testing I've seen from RL comparing other brands, was that one where they compared RL to S2k and IMHO, it was a LAME test. Old too.
 
I admit to having a bias against shady marketing practices, and that is probably the reason I don't, and probably never will, make a good salesman.
And I have never thought that any of the oil mfg's, or most of the boutique blenders, are above board on many of their advertizing stunts either.

Pablo, the guys you mentioned that have become Amsoil dealers and have very few clues, seem to be the norm for Amsoil. Guys like you are 1 in 1000.

And yes, it is very helpful when we have a place like this that helps us seperate the wheat from the chaff.

And I don't really want to debate the dynamics of the report...but, when we see one oil doing better than another in some of the tests, and the graph lines projects that there is considerable difference, that isn't always the case. The differences in some of the tests are relatively small numbers, and not quite as dramatic of a difference. Or at least not as dramatic as the graph would have us believe.
And the differences are also so small that they could be considered negligible. And many things in the real world could effect these results outside of what a test sample could be manipulated during a single procedure.
Again, it is hard for any test battery to argue with the results provided after the fact with the micrometer, bore gage, and sample data.

I realise that Amsoil has some good products, and I have never stated otherwise. But, I hate to debate with the comman Amsoil peddler.
But then, I also hate to debate a leftist...and deabating with either seems to be a futile exercize with the majority of them.
 
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