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I use both - the M1 is thicker metal but both have great guts ...
Mobil M1-110 or Fram Ultra XG7317 ?
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Originally Posted By: Arved
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: davison0976
If only there was some flow rate data for M1-110 and Fram XG7317, that would make it easier to decide.
They will both flow way more than the engine can put out. But since the XG is full synthetic it probably flows a hair better than the M1 under the same conditions.
Flow will be identical due to the oil pump being a positive displacement design. What will change is the pressure drop across the filter media.
True ... I was assuming most people here understand engine oiling systems.
Only clarification is that the filter that is more restrictive to flow will be cause the PD oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and thereby cause less oil flow to the engine at high RPM. This is why guys who race and are always near redline with heavy motor oil need a filter that flows well, or have a beefed up oil pump with a higher pressure relief setting to ensure the engine doesn't starve at high RPM.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: davison0976
If only there was some flow rate data for M1-110 and Fram XG7317, that would make it easier to decide.
They will both flow way more than the engine can put out. But since the XG is full synthetic it probably flows a hair better than the M1 under the same conditions.
Flow will be identical due to the oil pump being a positive displacement design. What will change is the pressure drop across the filter media.
True ... I was assuming most people here understand engine oiling systems.
Only clarification is that the filter that is more restrictive to flow will be cause the PD oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and thereby cause less oil flow to the engine at high RPM. This is why guys who race and are always near redline with heavy motor oil need a filter that flows well, or have a beefed up oil pump with a higher pressure relief setting to ensure the engine doesn't starve at high RPM.
I favor the Ultra. Waiting to see what happens to the manufacturing of the Mobil 1 oil filters, since Champion Labs does not show them any longer on its web site, following its Chapter 11.
I use ultra i don't like Mobil 1 filters... I do like Mobil 1 oil ..
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Wix XP. Double layer synthetic media, wire backed. Long history of quality control.
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Wix XP. Double layer synthetic media, wire backed. Long history of quality control.
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Up here, it's a package deal. With the Wix XP, you get barely half the efficiency of the Fram Ultra, at almost double the price.
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Up here, it's a package deal. With the Wix XP, you get barely half the efficiency of the Fram Ultra, at almost double the price.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Up here, it's a package deal. With the Wix XP, you get barely half the efficiency of the Fram Ultra, at almost double the price.
I wonder how it compares in terms of flow, then. I use Mann filters on my euro cars, but I use Wix XP on my track/drift car (1JZ toyota turbo engine). I am more concerned about flow than I am about efficiency with that engine. I would presume the Wix XP filter has less restriction, at the expense of reduced efficiency.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
Up here, it's a package deal. With the Wix XP, you get barely half the efficiency of the Fram Ultra, at almost double the price.
I wonder how it compares in terms of flow, then. I use Mann filters on my euro cars, but I use Wix XP on my track/drift car (1JZ toyota turbo engine). I am more concerned about flow than I am about efficiency with that engine. I would presume the Wix XP filter has less restriction, at the expense of reduced efficiency.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
I'd be interested to see the research on this. Do you have a link?
You can call the WIX tech line (number on their website) and they will tell you it's 50% @ 20 microns.
I just went to the WIX website and searched 3 different XP filters, and I noticed WIX has removed the beta ratio info on the XP filters now ... hummmm.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And very low efficiency, only 50% at 20 microns. Might improve over a 15K OCI, might not. Still generally more $ than an Ultra.
I'd be interested to see the research on this. Do you have a link?
You can call the WIX tech line (number on their website) and they will tell you it's 50% @ 20 microns.
I just went to the WIX website and searched 3 different XP filters, and I noticed WIX has removed the beta ratio info on the XP filters now ... hummmm.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I wonder how it compares in terms of flow, then. I use Mann filters on my euro cars, but I use Wix XP on my track/drift car (1JZ toyota turbo engine). I am more concerned about flow than I am about efficiency with that engine. I would presume the Wix XP filter has less restriction, at the expense of reduced efficiency.
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
I wonder how it compares in terms of flow, then. I use Mann filters on my euro cars, but I use Wix XP on my track/drift car (1JZ toyota turbo engine). I am more concerned about flow than I am about efficiency with that engine. I would presume the Wix XP filter has less restriction, at the expense of reduced efficiency.
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
Same flow as in stock form, except for an extra 1000 rpms until redline (8000). I think high-flow filters are used in racing, though, because they don't want any bypassing (I think a lot of race filters have no bypass valve). Most filters are bypassing during normal use, which is fine for street engines, but race/high RPM engines run the risk bypassing a large containment under load, taking out a bearing.
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
Same flow as in stock form, except for an extra 1000 rpms until redline (8000). I think high-flow filters are used in racing, though, because they don't want any bypassing (I think a lot of race filters have no bypass valve). Most filters are bypassing during normal use, which is fine for street engines, but race/high RPM engines run the risk bypassing a large containment under load, taking out a bearing.
Yes, if I recall correctly, at least some race setups don't have a bypass. I don't think we see a lot of bypass events, however, when under normal operation, particularly with the oil at operating temperatures.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Garak
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
Same flow as in stock form, except for an extra 1000 rpms until redline (8000). I think high-flow filters are used in racing, though, because they don't want any bypassing (I think a lot of race filters have no bypass valve). Most filters are bypassing during normal use, which is fine for street engines, but race/high RPM engines run the risk bypassing a large containment under load, taking out a bearing.
"Racing oil filters" usually have a higher bypass valve setting and are designed to take more delta-p across the media without failure. Racing filters still have a bypass valve ... it would be dangerous not to have one. It's the only thing that protects the filter from getting destroyed if the delta-p across the filter becomes too high.
The real "downfall" of a more restrictive filter is that it could make the oil pump hit pressure relief sooner, thereby cutting down the flow to the engine at very high RPM.
Most filters are not bypassing during "normal use". They will however bypass if you are running heavy oil and rev the [censored] out of the engine before the oil warms up and thins down some.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I don't think there are any flow concerns on any of the synthetic filters, be they ultra high efficiency or not. For that matter, I don't think we have a lot of problems with restrictive oil filters of any sort on the market. There certainly are racing filters available out there, but I'd worry more about that if the performance engine had more flow than was the OEM norm for that engine.
Same flow as in stock form, except for an extra 1000 rpms until redline (8000). I think high-flow filters are used in racing, though, because they don't want any bypassing (I think a lot of race filters have no bypass valve). Most filters are bypassing during normal use, which is fine for street engines, but race/high RPM engines run the risk bypassing a large containment under load, taking out a bearing.
"Racing oil filters" usually have a higher bypass valve setting and are designed to take more delta-p across the media without failure. Racing filters still have a bypass valve ... it would be dangerous not to have one. It's the only thing that protects the filter from getting destroyed if the delta-p across the filter becomes too high.
The real "downfall" of a more restrictive filter is that it could make the oil pump hit pressure relief sooner, thereby cutting down the flow to the engine at very high RPM.
Most filters are not bypassing during "normal use". They will however bypass if you are running heavy oil and rev the [censored] out of the engine before the oil warms up and thins down some.
We could be thinking of some of the Chevy stuff, too, with no bypass in the filter.
Originally Posted By: Garak
We could be thinking of some of the Chevy stuff, too, with no bypass in the filter.
Could be ... the guys with the GM V8s that disable the filter bypass in the block, then had their filters implode on them when running high volume oil pumps.
We could be thinking of some of the Chevy stuff, too, with no bypass in the filter.
Could be ... the guys with the GM V8s that disable the filter bypass in the block, then had their filters implode on them when running high volume oil pumps.
That would be a heck of a good time.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd say they are both very good quality filters, but the XG is a bit more efficient than the M1.
At first... after xxx miles I bet they filter the same!!!
So if you change your oil every other oil change I would pick M1. If you change your filter often I would pick the XGFram.
Nobody is going to load up their filter, not on the roads. Bypass is a marketing gimmick. Filtration numbers don't matter after a few miles.
...and it does matter if you got a rip, hole, bad seal, those filtration numbers are thrown out.... Always blow in filters before you buy to check ADBV, no rust or dents.
M1 is not "high tech" it is a SOLID built filter. That is what you want, a well constructed filter, no TearOlator, no cardboard end caps, plenty of glue and evenly spaced pleats. You cannot loose with either of these filters.
Your AIR FILTER is far more important than the oil filter.
I'd say they are both very good quality filters, but the XG is a bit more efficient than the M1.
At first... after xxx miles I bet they filter the same!!!
So if you change your oil every other oil change I would pick M1. If you change your filter often I would pick the XGFram.
Nobody is going to load up their filter, not on the roads. Bypass is a marketing gimmick. Filtration numbers don't matter after a few miles.
...and it does matter if you got a rip, hole, bad seal, those filtration numbers are thrown out.... Always blow in filters before you buy to check ADBV, no rust or dents.
M1 is not "high tech" it is a SOLID built filter. That is what you want, a well constructed filter, no TearOlator, no cardboard end caps, plenty of glue and evenly spaced pleats. You cannot loose with either of these filters.
Your AIR FILTER is far more important than the oil filter.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd say they are both very good quality filters, but the XG is a bit more efficient than the M1.
At first... after xxx miles I bet they filter the same!!!
They come up different efficiencies in the same ISO test, so why would using them on the road be any different. I believe the ISO test determines the efficiency through out the test, not just the beginning. I'll stick with the Ultra.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd say they are both very good quality filters, but the XG is a bit more efficient than the M1.
At first... after xxx miles I bet they filter the same!!!
They come up different efficiencies in the same ISO test, so why would using them on the road be any different. I believe the ISO test determines the efficiency through out the test, not just the beginning. I'll stick with the Ultra.
Hello from Canada....Rip off place for automotive parts prices
I need to decide between M1-110 and XG7317 tomorrow.
I have used M1 -110 for last 8 years with only once getting a defective filter where filter leaked oil after 2 months..leak was not from the joint as mechanic said it was tight .. just the filter was defective.. otherwise happy customer . last year runnng the filter for full year but before that changed every 6 months .. going forward it is yearly oci 10000kms
M1-110 is $18
XG7317 is $15 but getting it for $13 on deal tomorrow...
what you guys say .. stick to M1 for yearly oci or ditch it for XG7317
oil is M1 Extended Performance 0w20
I need to decide between M1-110 and XG7317 tomorrow.
I have used M1 -110 for last 8 years with only once getting a defective filter where filter leaked oil after 2 months..leak was not from the joint as mechanic said it was tight .. just the filter was defective.. otherwise happy customer . last year runnng the filter for full year but before that changed every 6 months .. going forward it is yearly oci 10000kms
M1-110 is $18
XG7317 is $15 but getting it for $13 on deal tomorrow...
what you guys say .. stick to M1 for yearly oci or ditch it for XG7317
oil is M1 Extended Performance 0w20
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