MMO vs TCW3 as a fuel additive

That is why you do consistent measuring before and after. Carefully tracking the numbers is important. We also look at the possible benefits in the combustion chamber and fuel system. I have not scoped my cylinder so I couldn't tell you before and after the use. Running quick numbers tells me based on a difference of 17.25 MPG and 17.50 may yield a savings of $60 over 20,000 miles. The numbers seem small but we don't need big gains to realize results.

This is similar in experimentation to extended oil intervals. You keep testing until you come up with results that you are happy with. I have found 10,000 mile intervals work for me. It may be that the additional TCW3 in the fuel yields no benefit worthy of its use, but so far that's not the case.
 
Amkeer said:
That is why you do consistent measuring before and after. Carefully tracking the numbers is important. We also look at the possible benefits in the combustion chamber and fuel system. I have not scoped my cylinder so I couldn't tell you before and after the use. Running quick numbers tells me based on a difference of 17.25 MPG and 17.50 may yield a savings of $60 over 20,000 miles. The numbers seem small but we don't need big gains to realize results.

This is similar in experimentation to extended oil intervals. You keep testing until you come up with results that you are happy with. I have found 10,000 mile intervals work for me. It may be that the additional TCW3 in the fuel yields no benefit worthy of its use, but so far that's not the case.
Click to expand...
What kschachn is trying to say is there's no way to tell if the 0.25 change in mpg was down to TC-W3 or some other factor (gas pump accuracy, air density, fuel formulation, air temp, alignment of the planets, etc).
The differences you're seeing are no different from the normal differences you'd see in regular driving. Add to that you're aware of the additive in your fuel making your one-sample test not double-blind...
 
Here is an illustrative plot by member ZeeOSix where he kept track of his fuel economy. He drove the same circuit to work except for the spike at 8500 when he took a longer trip:

1600106696578.png

Break-In Wear.

Assuming you did enough changes to flush the residuals at what point would you start seeing a normalizing of metals within the oil? 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 mi?
www.bobistheoilguy.com
 
I was using .25 as a conservative average for long term returns. I am seeing more of .50. As far as the graph posted my MPG trends pretty consistent in my truck. As mentioned I track the numbers consistently so I have before and after numbers.
 
The .25 was a conservative figure. It is higher than that and my ranges on a plot are tighter. In fact if its a highway the MPG is fairly consistent. There is a difference from .00 to .25 to .5. Going into this didn't expect a miracle in a bottle as that is not the intent. A difference of 2.5%-3.00% is a measured amount consistently obtained so far. This may get me away from any additives at 3000-5000 mile intervals to get the mileage back up.
 
*Here are the recommended starting ratios of MMO and TCW3 :
TCW3 to be used at 600:1 ratio with gas
MMO to be used at 300:1 ratio with gas

In my experience using the TCW3 at the recommended ratio of 600:1 resulted in a quiet engine but gas mileage took a bit of a hit , so I thinned out the ratio to 960:1 with better gas mileage and still had a quieter engine . MMO was similar BUT the engines are not as finicky if you over dose a bit on MMO as they would be if you overdosed the engine with TCW3 . I use TCW3 at 960:1 ratio every other fill up (added to at least 1/4th tank of gas - never less) to prevent over dosing the engine . I believe a little TCW3 used to lube the fuel pump and as a UCL can't hurt . I use the TCW3 mainly in PFI engines - not sure of the affects used in a newer GDI engine (i.e. cause an increase in intake deposits ?) ... I use MMO with good success similar as other posters have cited for my out door power equipment .
 
Ah yes, ye auld UCL thread rises again from murky depths. It always MMO or anything with TC3 though occasionally someone will espouse the previously unknown mystical powers of ATF.

Did you know you can dump it in your tank and it will burn?

Ha!

As a lubricant, position on cylinder notwithstanding, how long do you think you could run a marine 300HP outboard on ratios from 500:1 to 640:1?

OK, I get it now. You're already lubricating everything else in your auto via crankcase oil pump. This purported UCL is merely a little lube on the side.

Fine. Allow us for a moment to imagine that you have a water cooled/Air cooled 2-cycle with two separate passages for lubrication. Your standard 100:1/50:1 oil/petrol mix, depending on cooling medium, lubricates wrist pins, rod and crank bearings. Your MMO, TC3 or whatever mix goes only to the combustion chamber. The only lubrication there are cylinder walls & top ring.

The bottom end is covered by proper amount of lubricant mixed in petrol. Top side is 5-6X leaner, but it's employing unobtanium oil fracked from Dilithium crystals. So, you've that going for you.

How long might you speculate the engine would run before burning the top ring und scoring the Upper Cylinder Walls?

Upper Cylinder Walls especially, specifically protected by your fav UCL at beyond ridiculously lean proportions.

If you were at the very least claiming to use such at 200:1 I might entertain the whole UCL notion. Why not as that is only about twice as lean as needed if you already were not pumping oil all over the block.

Seriously, how much lubrication do you expect at 500:1-640:1?

Really?
 
RedlineOilUser said:
www.redlineoil.com

Fuel System Water Remover & Antifreeze

Removes water from diesel or gasoline systems, treats up to 250 gallons
www.redlineoil.com www.redlineoil.com
I use this for UCL and treats 250 gallons while dyno improvements of 2-3% are common.
Click to expand...

Would the fuel delivery system matter in the purported 2-3% dyno boost?

If not then you allege a carbureted engine could could have two small tanks using the same fuel though one contains 2667:1 of your fav Redline water remover & antifreeze. Switching from petrol only to the treated side, whilst on the dyno, the HP and/or torque would show 2-3% improvement as soon as the bowl was drained of the petrol only tank being replaced by the treated tank and still running on the dyno.

Is that about the gist of your claim?
 
Still getting a decent boost using the TCW3. When I run a tank without its 17.09 MPG with is 17.59. That percent is a little over 2%. It will take a while to determine whether or not I will continue to use it as a UCL, but so far its working good.
 
The 2014 Tacoma. I will start using it in the 2008 Tundra and then the 2003 Tacoma. I believe this will get me away from using Techron every 3000-5000 miles.
 
With such a lean mix as 640-1 I can not fathom how anyone might notice any improvement; save from a well worn lawn implement.
One oz of oil per 5gl of petrol isn't much of a bump.
 
It depends how long the oil survives in the combustion chamber. It's less volatile than the fuel so has a much higher chance of reaching the cylinder walls that are fairly cool.

Let's turn this around, what if 1 ounce of oil made it beyond the top compression ring for every 5 gallons of fuel consumed, wouldn't that be considered a lot of oil. At 20 mpg, it's an ounce per 100 miles or a quart per 3200 miles.

There's quite a few studies done about adding friction modifiers through the fuel, and they do make it into the oil. So it seems it's mostly a question of using the right product. Whether that's TCW3 or not I leave up to you all.

Reduced noise, if of the mechanical type is also a sign the oil reaches the cylinder walls and dampens the metal to metal contact.

www.bizol.com

TBN, What’s in It for Me?

Prof. Dr. Boris Zhmud, Head of R&D, BIZOL Lubricants GmbH, Article in LUBE MAGAZINE ONLINE APRIL 2018
www.bizol.com www.bizol.com

Different engine lubricants have different properties. As the engine noise is concerned, the most important property is the viscosity grade. Higher viscosity oils require a higher pressure head to be pumped through oil channels. On the other hand, they build a thicker lubricant film providing a greater sound damping effect. Think of a simple experiment: take a glass and hit it gently with a teaspoon – you will hear a characteristic “ding” sound. Now wrap the glass in an insulating tape to simulating the effect of the lubricant film, and hit it again – the sound has gone! Hence, acoustic emission measurements will easily detect a lack of lubrication due for instance to low oil pressure or low oil level.
Click to expand...


www.bizol.com

TBN, What’s in It for Me?

Prof. Dr. Boris Zhmud, Head of R&D, BIZOL Lubricants GmbH, Article in LUBE MAGAZINE ONLINE APRIL 2018
www.bizol.com www.bizol.com

Gasoline composition has a significant impact on engine cleanliness. For instance, olefins contained in FCC naphtha form gums by oxidation. Gums can cause a variety of problems such as blockage of fuel filters, injector nozzles, carbon deposits on intake valves and piston, sticking piston rings, etc. This impacts engine efficiency, increase fuel consumption, and eventually leads to engine breakdowns. Treating gasolines with detergent additives helps to maintain engine cleanliness, reducing the deposit formation levels by 10 to 20 times.
Click to expand...

PIBs used in 2 stroke oils catch byproducts from fuel burning, such as the gum mentioned above. It's how low smoke 2 stroke oils work.
 
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I have to confess that for the last 3K+ miles I've been a closet UCL participant. I ran a full tank, maybe two at 150:1 and leaned out from there in a 2.0TDI. I'm blending a marine 2 cycle oil with a high ester 2 cycle oil.

Mixing was a pain as was pouring it in the tank. I bought a turkey baster marked in ounces that was delivered today. Now, I can accurately measure the oil and pour it into a used FI cleaner bottle that will actually fit inside the tank neck. Shouldn't be as much of a mess either.

I'm close to 118K still on OEM wide band & secondary sensor along with cat. I keep scanner hooked up monitoring STFT/LTFT and use it to also check for any plugs missing & injector function.
 
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