Mercedes delays EV release

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.


...and when will this actually happen?

People have been saying this since the Model S was introduced in 2012.



UD








Tesla reported a month or so ago that their sales growth occurred in the leasing segment. High residual values are needed in order to sustain a "lease first" sales cycle. I'd guess in the next 3-4 yrs we'll see what happens as these vehicles come off lease and compete for new sales. Tesla models which have not had a complete refresh may be priced out or Tesla will get stuck with inventory that must be sold at a steep discount.


" May"

Can you get a copy of that report? I don't recall them saying that.

I believe it said leasing has grown - not surprising since it just started this summer, but I didnt see anything that said growth came exclusively, or soley from leasing.

UD

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Ws6

Tesla is sustained via tax dollars and Musk's other ventures and a hope and a prayer. If Tesla were a stand alone venture, it would have died a long time ago. I'm just waiting for someone to buy it who will clean it up and give us some good vehicles from it's tech.

The tax credit was $3,750 for the 1st 6 months of 2019 and $1,875 until the end of the year.
Then they are up.
Thr $7,500 tax credit ended last year, which is when we bought our car.
And this assumes one can benefit from the tax credit; you have to itemize.

What other ventures support Tesla? I have not seen those numbers in any statements.

A tax credit is not a deduction...its a credit. You don't itemize it, you file separate paperwork on it.

It is a dollar for dollar reduction of tax dollars you owe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...and-9-billion-of-negative-cash-flow/amp/

There is how Tesla has stayed alive so far.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Ws6

A tax credit is not a deduction...its a credit. You don't itemize it, you file separate paperwork on it.

It is a dollar for dollar reduction of tax dollars you owe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...and-9-billion-of-negative-cash-flow/amp/

There is how Tesla has stayed alive so far.

You are correct, a tax credit is not a deduction. I did not call it a deduction.
My mistake; you do not have to itemize.
Weather you itemize or take the standard deduction does not matter.

The issue was tax payers who did not have a tax burdon high enough to get the full benefit. Some thought they were getting the full value regardless.
But you are not correct that Tesla has stayed alive on tax incentives. The tax credit was halved and then halved again this year.
It will be zero as of Jan 1st. The other EVs will still benefit from the Federal tax credit.

Still wondering where the other ventures come in...

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Ws6

A tax credit is not a deduction...its a credit. You don't itemize it, you file separate paperwork on it.

It is a dollar for dollar reduction of tax dollars you owe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...and-9-billion-of-negative-cash-flow/amp/

There is how Tesla has stayed alive so far.

You are correct, a tax credit is not a deduction. I did not call it a deduction.
My mistake; you do not have to itemize.
Weather you itemize or take the standard deduction does not matter.

The issue was tax payers who did not have a tax burdon high enough to get the full benefit. Some thought they were getting the full value regardless.
But you are not correct that Tesla has stayed alive on tax incentives. The tax credit was halved and then halved again this year.
It will be zero as of Jan 1st. The other EVs will still benefit from the Federal tax credit.

Still wondering where the other ventures come in...

You're a shining example. You bought yours, in your own words, when the credit was best for you, it seems. Likely others are buying them at a higher rate than they will later, again due to the credit. Its helped them notably, I'd bet.

Also, is the credit 1 year or can you take advantage of it over 2 years? If i had needed to, I have 2 years to get my solar credit, for example.

Also...who is buying a new tesla who has a tax burden below 7500 or 4500, other than retirees with no invesments?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Ws6

You're a shining example. You bought yours, in your own words, when the credit was best for you, it seems. Likely others are buying them at a higher rate than they will later, again due to the credit. Its helped them notably, I'd bet.

Also, is the credit 1 year or can you take advantage of it over 2 years? If i had needed to, I have 2 years to get my solar credit, for example.

Also...who is buying a new tesla who has a tax burden below 7500 or 4500, other than retirees with no invesments?

I took advantage of the tax credit, for sure. But that is not why I bought the car.
I bought the car because I wanted it, as did my wife. She really made the decision.
I might not have bought a Model 3 last December but i am pretty sure I would have bought one by now.
In fact I like the Model 3 so much I might buy another. There is no other car I am interested in.
But I have enough cars right now. There is more important things to do with money than cars.

You are mistaken about the tax credit. Sure, it is nice. But $1,875 on a big purchase should not be the deciding factor.
The cheapest Model 3 is about $40K plus tax, license, etc. No FSD, base wheels, base interior. Not for me.
My car is $50K now, which is less than what I paid for several reasons, mainly price reductions.
And if you order now you will not get a tax credit because delivery is at least a month out due to demand.
Tesla sells every Model 3 they make and cannot satisfy current demand.
This year about 290,000 Model 3s will be delivered.

I have no idea about taking the tax credit in a tax year after your purchase year. Pretty much moot now for Teslas.

There were people who bought Teslas last year who did not have $7,500 in Federal income tax.
They mistakenly thought they would get the money back on their purchase.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Ws6

You're a shining example. You bought yours, in your own words, when the credit was best for you, it seems. Likely others are buying them at a higher rate than they will later, again due to the credit. Its helped them notably, I'd bet.

Also, is the credit 1 year or can you take advantage of it over 2 years? If i had needed to, I have 2 years to get my solar credit, for example.

Also...who is buying a new tesla who has a tax burden below 7500 or 4500, other than retirees with no invesments?

I took advantage of the tax credit, for sure. But that is not why I bought the car.
I bought the car because I wanted it, as did my wife. She really made the decision.
I might not have bought a Model 3 last December but i am pretty sure I would have bought one by now.
In fact I like the Model 3 so much I might buy another. There is no other car I am interested in.
But I have enough cars right now. There is more important things to do with money than cars.

You are mistaken about the tax credit. Sure, it is nice. But $1,875 on a big purchase should not be the deciding factor.
The cheapest Model 3 is about $40K plus tax, license, etc. No FSD, base wheels, base interior. Not for me.
My car is $50K now, which is less than what I paid for several reasons, mainly price reductions.
And if you order now you will not get a tax credit because delivery is at least a month out due to demand.
Tesla sells every Model 3 they make and cannot satisfy current demand.
This year about 290,000 Model 3s will be delivered.

I have no idea about taking the tax credit in a tax year after your purchase year. Pretty much moot now for Teslas.

There were people who bought Teslas last year who did not have $7,500 in Federal income tax.
They mistakenly thought they would get the money back on their purchase.


Oof. They bought $40k vehicles and had less than a $7500 federal tax burden?

Either they live in a shack, or I need to stop filing my own taxes and get a CPA again.

That said, that's cool you bought a model 3. In a few years though, much better options are likely to hit the market. For me, a PEV, non petrol backup vehicle just isnt safe or sensible. The rav4 prime right now is the closest I'd come to a PEV. So far, sticking with my turbo cx5 though.

 

[PimTac]

It's going to get more expensive for EV drivers in WA state. They are planning to eliminate the state gasoline tax and go with a per mile charge of 2.4 cents. Compared to the 49.4 cents per gallon the state taxes us now, everyone will be paying a whole lot more just to drive.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by PimTac
It's going to get more expensive for EV drivers in WA state. They are planning to eliminate the state gasoline tax and go with a per mile charge of 2.4 cents. Compared to the 49.4 cents per gallon the state taxes us now, everyone will be paying a whole lot more just to drive.


Not to bring politics into it, but where you live matters so much more than what you drive. I chose my living situation and adapted my vehicle choice to it for that reason.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by PimTac
It's going to get more expensive for EV drivers in WA state. They are planning to eliminate the state gasoline tax and go with a per mile charge of 2.4 cents. Compared to the 49.4 cents per gallon the state taxes us now, everyone will be paying a whole lot more just to drive.


Not to bring politics into it, but where you live matters so much more than what you drive. I chose my living situation and adapted my vehicle choice to it for that reason.




True. When gasoline prices skyrocketed in the 70's the rush was on to get rid of gas guzzlers in favor of fuel efficient cars. Japan profited greatly from that.

The trend is getting more expensive for personal vehicles.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk


You are mistaken about the tax credit. Sure, it is nice. But $1,875 on a big purchase should not be the deciding factor.
The cheapest Model 3 is about $40K plus tax, license, etc. No FSD, base wheels, base interior. Not for me.



Dealers have buyers fighting over every last dollar on $40K cars all day long. An extra $1,800 in fees added to a purchase would be a huge fight.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by PimTac
It's going to get more expensive for EV drivers in WA state. They are planning to eliminate the state gasoline tax and go with a per mile charge of 2.4 cents. Compared to the 49.4 cents per gallon the state taxes us now, everyone will be paying a whole lot more just to drive.



Using an average of 15,000 miles a year, that works out to $360 at 2.4c per mile. Average mpg for the 2016 model year was 24.7mpg, or 607.287 gallons of gas to go 15,000 miles, which works out to $300 in fuel taxes. The pessimist in me says they won't drop fuel prices by 49.4 cents per gallon either... they'll spin it as "Look! Gas is cheaper now! We did a good thing!"

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6


There is how Tesla has stayed alive so far.


The "crucial turning point" mentioned in that article was well over year ago - his prediction failed to come true like so many others.

Many have claimed the numbers dont add ups yet not one single sell or buy/ side analysts, or article authors claims have resulted in a restatement.

If Telsa stayed alive on a tax credit how come they have-not dwindled with the reduction and or outright removal of it?

UD

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6


There is how Tesla has stayed alive so far.


The "crucial turning point" mentioned in that article was well over year ago - his prediction failed to come true like so many others.

Many have claimed the numbers dont add ups yet not one single sell or buy/ side analysts, or article authors claims have resulted in a restatement.

If Telsa stayed alive on a tax credit how come they have-not dwindled with the reduction and or outright removal of it?

UD

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.


If the shareholders believed that was the long term plan they would probably get off the stock.

UD

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.


If the shareholders believed that was the long term plan they would probably get off the stock.

UD

I know, just waiting for that first year with a profit!

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.


If the shareholders believed that was the long term plan they would probably get off the stock.

UD

I know, just waiting for that first year with a profit!


Meanwhile shareholders are up 99% this year.

UD

 

[PimTac]

TSLA reminds me of JNPR back in the late 90's. A high flying stock that was supported by emotion.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.


If the shareholders believed that was the long term plan they would probably get off the stock.

UD

I know, just waiting for that first year with a profit!


Meanwhile shareholders are up 99% this year.

UD


You must be hitting the cool aid pretty hard. Year to date is about 16.84%. It took a real dive earlier in the year. Maybe from the very low to now, even the 6 months is only 72%

https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/TSLA/performance?mode=monthly

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

You're probably right. Losing money every year doesn't mean a business isn't awesome and long term viable.


If the shareholders believed that was the long term plan they would probably get off the stock.

UD

I know, just waiting for that first year with a profit!


Meanwhile shareholders are up 99% this year.

UD

You're right. Profit really doesn't mean anything. Even when it's negative over the past decade, each year. That's just a red herring. Tesla is definitely the company to watch! All signs point to their success!

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


You must be hitting the cool aid pretty hard. Year to date is about 16.84%. It took a real dive earlier in the year. Maybe from the very low to now, even the 6 months is only 72%

https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/TSLA/performance?mode=monthly

[/quote]

My bad - too many charts open at one time - I was up pretty early and multi tasking poorly

The 6 month is 76% as you said.

I think sam miscalculated here.





UD