M1 ESP 0W30 (8200 km run for an 2018 VW Golf R)

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Five consecutive UOAs for this 2018 Golf R Earliest UOA (applicable right column) of CASTROL 0W40 (Applicable certificaton is 502) Next column left corresponds to the UOA of FUCHS TITAN GT1 5W30 (502 and dexos2) Next column left corresponds to the UOA of Pennzoil Platinum EURO LX 0W30 (504) The column to the immediate right of the Unit/Location Averages is for M1 ESP Formula 0W40 ("Vette" OIL) (dexos2 is the only builder approval) And finally the applicable left column is for M1 ESP 0W30 (504)It is only for this UOA that I have done TBN (3.7) and TAN (5.7)(Although in the BStone comment section for this report, not shown in this post, has these 2 #s switched ???) (ALL DISTANCES are in KILOMETRES)(This most recent OCI is the longest of the five at 8200 kms or just over 5100 miles) (The M1 ESP 0W30 was replaced with TITAN GT1 PRO C-3 5W-30)

Blackstone Report for M1 ESP 0W30 from June 2019 to October 7th 2019.PNG
 
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^^^Surprised to see such a low TBN after only 5K miles but I'm not a total UOA nerd so maybe I'm off base here - I see better numbers (to me) on my LM 5W40 (502) at ~7K miles. Your moly/boron are higher than I see in my UOAs - what is that from?
 
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Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^Surprised to see such a low TBN after only 5K miles but I'm not a total UOA nerd so maybe I'm off base here - I see better numbers (to me) on my LM 5W40 (502) at ~7K miles. Your moly/boron are higher than I see in my UOAs - what is that from?
Why are you surprised? 504/507 tends to start with lower TBN's than a 502.00 oil
 
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Great iron results, low wear. Interesting set of oils. No problems. I've got the 2.0T variant, the DGUA one in a '19 Tiguan, with very low power compared to the Golf R. Maybe thats why VW says I need a VW 508 0w-20. I'd say stick with the Mobil1 ESP 0w30 or ESP 5w30 since the U.S. finally has low sulphur gasoline.
 
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^Surprised to see such a low TBN after only 5K miles but I'm not a total UOA nerd so maybe I'm off base here - I see better numbers (to me) on my LM 5W40 (502) at ~7K miles. Your moly/boron are higher than I see in my UOAs - what is that from?
Why are you surprised? 504/507 tends to start with lower TBN's than a 502.00 oil
As I said I'm not super knowledgeable on this. Learned something.
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
Great iron results, low wear. Interesting set of oils.
Thanks. It does confirms that a 0W30 oil works just fine in this application for at least 5k miles.
Originally Posted by paoester
No problems
The only thing that bothers me is the consumption. By 5k miles it is down about 3/4 of a quart or so and this has been the case for all of these oils. I wonder if I would see any difference if I used the same oil in successive runs or tried the more "traditional" 5W40 shrug
Originally Posted by paoester
I've got the 2.0T variant, the DGUA one in a '19 Tiguan, with very low power compared to the Golf R. Maybe thats why VW says I need a VW 508 0w-20.
Do you like your Tiguan? It seems like the "Goldilocks" sized vehicle to me ie not too big; not too small.
Originally Posted by paoester
I'd say stick with the Mobil1 ESP 0w30 or ESP 5w30 since the U.S. finally has low sulphur gasoline.
I do have another case of the M1 ESP 0W30 but for the summer run I think I will use PP EURO 0W40 SN PLUS (if I can source it by then) or even the PP 5W40 SN PLUS.
 
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Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by paoester
Great iron results, low wear. Interesting set of oils.
Thanks. It does confirms that a 0W30 oil works just fine in this application for at least 5k miles.
Originally Posted by paoester
No problems
The only thing that bothers me is the consumption. By 5k miles it is down about 3/4 of a quart or so and this has been the case for all of these oils. I wonder if I would see any difference if I used the same oil in successive runs or tried the more "traditional" 5W40 shrug
Originally Posted by paoester
I've got the 2.0T variant, the DGUA one in a '19 Tiguan, with very low power compared to the Golf R. Maybe thats why VW says I need a VW 508 0w-20.
Do you like your Tiguan? It seems like the "Goldilocks" sized vehicle to me ie not too big; not too small.
Originally Posted by paoester
I'd say stick with the Mobil1 ESP 0w30 or ESP 5w30 since the U.S. finally has low sulphur gasoline.
I do have another case of the M1 ESP 0W30 but for the summer run I think I will use PP EURO 0W40 SN PLUS (if I can source it by then) or even the PP 5W40 SN PLUS.
Yes, would be interesting to see how your consumption ended up with a more traditional 5W40 502 oil like Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech. My Golf has had "zero" oil consumption since new on ~7K OCIs with the LM (I may have had a little loss on the factory fill but never topped it off). Also would be interested to see how these 504 oils look at higher mileages say 8K miles.
 

JOD

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Thanks for posting. Just picked up a couple of changes of this at Napa for my R. They had it on sale for $5.49, which is the best deal here on 0W30 504 oil. From looking at the reports (flashpoint drop and viscosity), doesn't look like much fuel dilution at all on the stock tune. Looks like this as been sorted out. Otherwise, not much to choose between any of those oils. Tigeo: I've been using 504/507 oils in my tuned Alltrack, and there's been no noticeable consumption either. Also, looking at this report, the oil certainly looks like it could go 10K if the owner chose to do so. Starting TBN is only 6.2, and the drop is non-linear. The 10K factory recommendation seems reasonable if driving habits allow.
 
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Originally Posted by 21Rouge
The only thing that bothers me is the consumption. By 5k miles it is down about 3/4 of a quart or so and this has been the case for all of these oils. I wonder if I would see any difference if I used the same oil in successive runs or tried the more "traditional" 5W40 shrug
For a high performance engine especially, that is considered zero oil consumption, practically. Even for a low power density engine that would be fine. Most oil consumption recalls I've seen say anything better than 1 quart in 2,000 miles is acceptable.
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Do you like your Tiguan? It seems like the "Goldilocks" sized vehicle to me ie not too big; not too small.
I got it for the 6 year bumper to bumper warranty deal. Yours has that too. Also the Tiguan's price was pretty low. Other than that, its probably not as good as a Mazda CX-5 yet its adequate and performs well. It's Aisin 8-speed torque convertor automatic is nice. I noticed for 2019, the Golf R (288 hp) still needs 502/504 oil, while the GTI gets thin 508 (at 228 hp).
 
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Originally Posted by JOD
Thanks for posting. Just picked up a couple of changes of this at Napa for my R. They had it on sale for $5.49, which is the best deal here on 0W30 504 oil. From looking at the reports (flashpoint drop and viscosity), doesn't look like much fuel dilution at all on the stock tune. Looks like this as been sorted out. Otherwise, not much to choose between any of those oils. Tigeo: I've been using 504/507 oils in my tuned Alltrack, and there's been no noticeable consumption either. Also, looking at this report, the oil certainly looks like it could go 10K if the owner chose to do so. Starting TBN is only 6.2, and the drop is non-linear. The 10K factory recommendation seems reasonable if driving habits allow.
Ok, thanks. What tune/bits are you running on your Alltrack? So my basic question is what do the 504 oils give me that the 502 oil aren't over a 7.5K OCI?
 
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Originally Posted by TiGeo
So my basic question is what do the 504 oils give me that the 502 oil aren't over a 7.5K OCI?
Ostensibly, less valve stem deposits.
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
For a high performance engine especially, that is considered zero oil consumption, practically.
Maybe so but I have several friends who own Rs in which oil consumption in their vehicles over 5k miles is negligible. ("high performance" doesn't always imply oil consumption)
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Do you like your Tiguan? It seems like the "Goldilocks" sized vehicle to me ie not too big; not too small.
Originally Posted by paoester
I got it for the 6 year bumper to bumper warranty deal. Yours has that too.
Nope (but of course I wish it were so). Canadians only get the 4 year btb.
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by TiGeo
So my basic question is what do the 504 oils give me that the 502 oil aren't over a 7.5K OCI?
Ostensibly, less valve stem deposits.
Ah - what about the 504s helps out with this vs. the 502s?
 
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Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by TiGeo
So my basic question is what do the 504 oils give me that the 502 oil aren't over a 7.5K OCI?
Ostensibly, less valve stem deposits.
Ah - what about the 504s helps out with this vs. the 502s?
Lower SAPS (sulphated ash, phosphorus, and sulphur). I've seen Lubrizol claim less deposits. I guess it makes sense and I'll just listen to the people in the white lab coats with PhDs about it. Slide 19 of http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=49074
 

JOD

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Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by JOD
Thanks for posting. Just picked up a couple of changes of this at Napa for my R. They had it on sale for $5.49, which is the best deal here on 0W30 504 oil. From looking at the reports (flashpoint drop and viscosity), doesn't look like much fuel dilution at all on the stock tune. Looks like this as been sorted out. Otherwise, not much to choose between any of those oils. Tigeo: I've been using 504/507 oils in my tuned Alltrack, and there's been no noticeable consumption either. Also, looking at this report, the oil certainly looks like it could go 10K if the owner chose to do so. Starting TBN is only 6.2, and the drop is non-linear. The 10K factory recommendation seems reasonable if driving habits allow.
Ok, thanks. What tune/bits are you running on your Alltrack? So my basic question is what do the 504 oils give me that the 502 oil aren't over a 7.5K OCI?
Just an APR 87 Octane tune (though I typically run 91, I wanted to lower torque tune to delay the inevitable clutch replacement--so I went with the lower-torque tune). AFE drop-in filter and snow guard removed, not other bolt-ons. I'll upgrade the intercooler at some point. My UOA's showed a small amount of fuel in the oil, nothing dramatic, and this seems directly related to the tune. As such, I'll keep the interval a bit shorter, 7.5K or so. I do think one could go longer with a 504/507 oil on the stock tune without worry though, as long as the driving habits were reasonable.
 
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Originally Posted by 21Rouge
And finally the applicable left column is for M1 ESP 0W30 (504)(It is only for this UOA that I have done TBN (3.7) and TAN (5.7)(Although in the BStone comment section for this report, not shown in this post, has these 2 #s switched ???)
BStone confirmed that the TBN was 3.7 and the TAN was 5.7 (the same #s in the original BStone Comment section but simply switched)
 
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Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
And finally the applicable left column is for M1 ESP 0W30 (504)(It is only for this UOA that I have done TBN (3.7) and TAN (5.7)(Although in the BStone comment section for this report, not shown in this post, has these 2 #s switched ???)
BStone confirmed that the TBN was 3.7 and the TAN was 5.7 (the same #s in the original BStone Comment section but simply switched)
That's funky!
 
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Kind of off topic... I still don't understand how changing the oil pump design justifies the move to 508 when all other components remained status quo.
 
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