Jeep 4.0 - 6400MI - 22k on XG8A(Fram Ultra) - Particle Count

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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] I did this oil analysis on my Jeep for fun to see how the filtering was doing after 22k on the XG8A, The filter was installed on 8/2017, 80% of this OCI was short tripping to work <10min. It has four oil changes on this filter 2x with 10W30 Maxlife and 2x 15W40 HDEO Maxlife. Flashpoint being low not sure about though I did take this sample after a short idle to warm it up. I did my RMS two OCI ago and did use some rtv on the rear cap so that might be leaching into the oil.
 
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As far as silicon goes, I can't imagine any spin-on filter removing particles that show up on an ICP analysis. They can be down to the atomic level.
 
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Any chances of photos of the cut open filter? Any chance it could have been blinded off & in bypass? Or possibly running a K&N air filter or similar? You make me want to go out & pull/cut the XG8A off the '98 XJ 4.0 in my sig, now!
 
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Newb here when it comes to particle count and I'm curious for some definitive info being that I'm using a Fram Ultra on my '99 Wrangler 4.0 right now. Could the high particle count numbers be due to the length of time the filter has been used?
 
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Now that the fun is done, what is your next filter change interval going to be? Not to be critical, but the Jeep probably uses 1000 gals of gas in this interval, say at $3/gal equals $3000. Three more Ultras would be $27 or so. It would be interesting to do PC on one oci with one filter. Generally the PC numbers are about what would be expected on a full flow filter. They have to filter all the oil flow all the time. A Frantz would clean that right up in a few miles. All is IMO. 2cents
 
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Before we go bashing the Fram Ultra, this is a 4th oil change and 22k miles on this filter. The efficiency is certainly nowhere near what it is new. This is why I'm a big advocate of changing the filter every oil change.
 
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Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
Thanks for getting and sharing a particle count. This Ultra's particle count is a bit disappointing. The silicon is also high for an Ultra. In this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4650751/1 I linked to some particle counts with other filters which performed notably better.
Possible that running the filter for 22,000 miles wasn't ideal on this motor. Iron ppm is high too in this UOA compared to other Ultra PC and iron counts in other engines. There have been UOAs posted in this forum with PC data when using an Ultra that had a way better PC level and way less iron ppm. Oil filters can become less efficient if loaded too much, there's technical info about that phenomenon. Guys think they are getting better oil filtration by running a filter an extended long time, but they could actually be getting worse filtration.
 
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The filter starts clogging which increases the pressure delta which starts dislodging previously captured particles as well as making bypass events more frequent.
 
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The filter starts clogging which increases the pressure delta which starts dislodging previously captured particles as well as making bypass events more frequent.
Yep, I've posted a lot about it in the oil filter forum - you've probable seen the discussions. Oil filters do not necessarily have increased efficiency with increased debris loading like air filters do. That's because the delta-p across an oil filter is magnitudes higher than the delta-p across an air filter. So there is a lot more captured debris shedding associated with oil filters.
 
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Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Any chances of photos of the cut open filter? Any chance it could have been blinded off & in bypass? Or possibly running a K&N air filter or similar? You make me want to go out & pull/cut the XG8A off the '98 XJ 4.0 in my sig, now!
I do have the filter, I can use tin snips to open it up but if anyone has better method I can send it to them. My lower part of the airbox is cracked and deformed a bit but I assumed the filter still fits nicely into the top..maybe not I'll probably go to the junkyard and swap it out. Otherwise it's just a carquest paperfilter. I did go mudding recently so maybe that didn't help laugh
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Now that the fun is done, what is your next filter change interval going to be?
Same(new) filter but half the interval for science laugh so 10k miles. Also interestingly the "insolubles" count it's still very low. The used filter seems to do well above it's 20micron rating not so much below laugh
 
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Any chances of photos of the cut open filter? Any chance it could have been blinded off & in bypass? Or possibly running a K&N air filter or similar? You make me want to go out & pull/cut the XG8A off the '98 XJ 4.0 in my sig, now!
I do have the filter, I can use tin snips to open it up but if anyone has better method I can send it to them. My lower part of the airbox is cracked and deformed a bit but I assumed the filter still fits nicely into the top..maybe not I'll probably go to the junkyard and swap it out. Otherwise it's just a carquest paperfilter. I did go mudding recently so maybe that didn't help laugh
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Now that the fun is done, what is your next filter change interval going to be?
Same(new) filter but half the interval for science laugh so 10k miles. Also interestingly the "insolubles" count it's still very low. The used filter seems to do well above it's 20micron rating not so much below laugh
Sir: I'd gladly cut your filter open for you. Just say the word smile
 
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers
My lower part of the airbox is cracked and deformed a bit but I assumed the filter still fits nicely into the top..maybe not I'll probably go to the junkyard and swap it out. Otherwise it's just a carquest paperfilter. I did go mudding recently so maybe that didn't help laugh
Yeah, could be part of the problem.
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Also interestingly the "insolubles" count it's still very low. The used filter seems to do well above it's 20micron rating not so much below laugh
The "Insolubles" in the UOA has no correlation to the PC. I've plotted them out and I see no correlation.
 
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