Is the 3,000 Mile Oil Change outdated (linky)
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Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, Ind., one of the best-known places for engine oil analysis, will send you a free kit.
It depends.
Pretty much. Both my vehicles are on 10k mile oil changes with Toyota 0w20
The OCI of 3k/3mo was outdated 15-20 years ago, not 7-8 years. The oil companies, the quicklube places and dealers want to sell more oil to have more profits are the ones promoting 3k/3mo OCI.
I agree, 3k OCI is outdated. I run 10k on one vehicle and 7.5k on the other.
Although the oils are much better, the cars and engines are much harder on the oil too, keeping alot of emmissions in the engine and causing the oil to work much harder at keeping carbon and contaminates in check. I would say it would be determined by alot of factors, such as how high performance the engine is and wether it is prone to sludge related problems. I prefer the 3000 mile intervals, I sometimes go to 4000 miles, never past 5000 miles and use synthetics alot. Its all personal preferrance. throw that limited resources garbage out the door.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Although the oils are much better, the cars and engines are much harder on the oil too, keeping alot of emmissions in the engine and causing the oil to work much harder at keeping carbon and contaminates in check. I would say it would be determined by alot of factors, such as how high performance the engine is and wether it is prone to sludge related problems. I prefer the 3000 mile intervals, I sometimes go to 4000 miles, never past 5000 miles and use synthetics alot. Its all personal preferrance. throw that limited resources garbage out the door.
True about modern engines placing greater stress on albeit superior oils, but do you know objectively that the former cancels out the extended performance of the latter? A lot of UOAs posted here seem to contradict you.
How did you go about determining the OCIs you use in your current vehicles?
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
Although the oils are much better, the cars and engines are much harder on the oil too, keeping alot of emmissions in the engine and causing the oil to work much harder at keeping carbon and contaminates in check. I would say it would be determined by alot of factors, such as how high performance the engine is and wether it is prone to sludge related problems. I prefer the 3000 mile intervals, I sometimes go to 4000 miles, never past 5000 miles and use synthetics alot. Its all personal preferrance. throw that limited resources garbage out the door.
True about modern engines placing greater stress on albeit superior oils, but do you know objectively that the former cancels out the extended performance of the latter? A lot of UOAs posted here seem to contradict you.
How did you go about determining the OCIs you use in your current vehicles?
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
Quote:
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
No, he is arguing that industry recommendations and established oil testing techniques available to consumers should take a back seat to arbitrary suppositions and personal preference. A shorter OCI might be warranted, but it might be beneficial to show that it is.
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
No, he is arguing that industry recommendations and established oil testing techniques available to consumers should take a back seat to arbitrary suppositions and personal preference. A shorter OCI might be warranted, but it might be beneficial to show that it is.
This article is really funny because it represents thinking that is itself outdated already. It would have been spot on a couple of years ago with the "modern" naturally aspirated port injection engines. The "wave of the future" in automotive technology is direct injection (read, fuel dilution) and the widespread return to turbocharging (read, high heat and heat shear). The double whammy. I don't think there are any oils in their current formulation that will stand up to that for extended OCIs. The UOAs will tell the tale (forget about just wear metals - - start to focus on substantial shear back and rapidly lowering flash points, volatility issues and deposit formation).
Unless you're a pizza delivery guy or something similar going and stopping every mile or two or really severe service, it's pretty ignorant and outdated.
Originally Posted By: fokvoort
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Although the oils are much better, the cars and engines are much harder on the oil too, keeping alot of emmissions in the engine and causing the oil to work much harder at keeping carbon and contaminates in check. I would say it would be determined by alot of factors, such as how high performance the engine is and wether it is prone to sludge related problems. I prefer the 3000 mile intervals, I sometimes go to 4000 miles, never past 5000 miles and use synthetics alot. Its all personal preferrance. throw that limited resources garbage out the door.
True about modern engines placing greater stress on albeit superior oils, but do you know objectively that the former cancels out the extended performance of the latter? A lot of UOAs posted here seem to contradict you.
How did you go about determining the OCIs you use in your current vehicles?
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
It's silly to get on the 'limited resource' bandwagon when you participate on a website that many of it's members purchase and store cases upon cases of oil. I'm not saying that this website promotes nor condones frequent oil purchases....but making a big deal about oil usage and/or getting worked up over it being a 'limited resource' is kind of odd. Not everybody must adhere nor subscribe to another members ideal OCI. As long as they are paying for the oil, and not dumping it illegally, they are doing nothing that any of us should point fingers at in an environmental sense.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Although the oils are much better, the cars and engines are much harder on the oil too, keeping alot of emmissions in the engine and causing the oil to work much harder at keeping carbon and contaminates in check. I would say it would be determined by alot of factors, such as how high performance the engine is and wether it is prone to sludge related problems. I prefer the 3000 mile intervals, I sometimes go to 4000 miles, never past 5000 miles and use synthetics alot. Its all personal preferrance. throw that limited resources garbage out the door.
True about modern engines placing greater stress on albeit superior oils, but do you know objectively that the former cancels out the extended performance of the latter? A lot of UOAs posted here seem to contradict you.
How did you go about determining the OCIs you use in your current vehicles?
And are you really arguing that oil isn't a limited resource, or that even if it is we shouldn't be concerned?
It's silly to get on the 'limited resource' bandwagon when you participate on a website that many of it's members purchase and store cases upon cases of oil. I'm not saying that this website promotes nor condones frequent oil purchases....but making a big deal about oil usage and/or getting worked up over it being a 'limited resource' is kind of odd. Not everybody must adhere nor subscribe to another members ideal OCI. As long as they are paying for the oil, and not dumping it illegally, they are doing nothing that any of us should point fingers at in an environmental sense.
Dont' be so hard on DI engines. My Mazda CX7 is a DI turbo engine. My 3 UOAs (6,000 miles each) suggest that I try 7,000 miles next time due to good wear numbers. That with PP 5w30 oil & MC filter.
In general i would think so but some engines are known to sludge badly e.g. Toyota 3.0 if its one of these i think 3k is fine after seeing what 5k OCI look like.
I wouldnt waste good oil at 3k ever. Im ashamed to have done it in the past. But I didnt know! I DIDNT KNOW!!!
Originally Posted By: yaris0128
I wouldnt waste good oil at 3k ever. Im ashamed to have done it in the past. But I didnt know! I DIDNT KNOW!!!
SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW! You have come to worship at the altar of BITOG and have seen the light. For that, all your past transgressions have been forgiven my son.
I wouldnt waste good oil at 3k ever. Im ashamed to have done it in the past. But I didnt know! I DIDNT KNOW!!!
SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW! You have come to worship at the altar of BITOG and have seen the light. For that, all your past transgressions have been forgiven my son.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Dont' be so hard on DI engines. My Mazda CX7 is a DI turbo engine. My 3 UOAs (6,000 miles each) suggest that I try 7,000 miles next time due to good wear numbers. That with PP 5w30 oil & MC filter.
Good that you are doing UOAs. But wear metals are not the issue with di - - its the fuel-diluted oil that causes vapors and deposits in the intake side of the engine and this doesn't show up on UOAs. If the UOA shows your oil vis has stayed about 10-15% of VOA and the flash point has stayed at or close to 400 F, then you are probably golden. But don't rely on Blackstone to sound a warning. I have seen UOAs where a 30 wt has sheared back to a 20 wt and the flash point has dropped to as low as 280 F, and the report focuses on wear metals and TBN, but that is seriously compromised oil. The funny thing with forced induction di engines is that they just blow the air past the deposits, but gradually the efficiency of the engine does suffer. Check out how fast the deposits can build up -
www.bgfueltest.com
And here -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-135i-oil-issue.113699/
I think there is a Mazda in there somewhere. There are other BITOG threads as well.
I'm not trying to fear monger, but di engines, particularly forced induction di engines, are different animals, and I would not casually do 10k or 15k (BMWs), or even 5k or 7.5 k, OCI on these engines without monitoring with UOAs at frequent intervals. Google di engines and fuel dilution and there is an SAE paper, about 4 or 5 yrs old now, on the problem. About 3 or 4 months ago there was a thread on the euro BITOG forum started by a lubricant engineer who attended the Nurburgring 24 hr race and he said he talked with many of his cohorts in the pits and the topic of the hour was di and fuel dilution. In the engine I'm most familiar with (the BMW N54 twin turbo di engine) the injectors inject fuel at 1200-1700 psi, compared to 45-75 psi in port injection, with max of 2800 psi on the compression stroke. That gets fuel in the oil and oil film, no matter how good the rings are. And recently I saw a post on one of the BMW forums from a guy with a '07 335i (N54) that had 120k miles on it. Intrigued, I pm'd him and sure enough he had to have the head/intake valves mechanically cleaned. And that was with 3k OCIs.
Dont' be so hard on DI engines. My Mazda CX7 is a DI turbo engine. My 3 UOAs (6,000 miles each) suggest that I try 7,000 miles next time due to good wear numbers. That with PP 5w30 oil & MC filter.
Good that you are doing UOAs. But wear metals are not the issue with di - - its the fuel-diluted oil that causes vapors and deposits in the intake side of the engine and this doesn't show up on UOAs. If the UOA shows your oil vis has stayed about 10-15% of VOA and the flash point has stayed at or close to 400 F, then you are probably golden. But don't rely on Blackstone to sound a warning. I have seen UOAs where a 30 wt has sheared back to a 20 wt and the flash point has dropped to as low as 280 F, and the report focuses on wear metals and TBN, but that is seriously compromised oil. The funny thing with forced induction di engines is that they just blow the air past the deposits, but gradually the efficiency of the engine does suffer. Check out how fast the deposits can build up -
www.bgfueltest.com
And here -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-135i-oil-issue.113699/
I think there is a Mazda in there somewhere. There are other BITOG threads as well.
I'm not trying to fear monger, but di engines, particularly forced induction di engines, are different animals, and I would not casually do 10k or 15k (BMWs), or even 5k or 7.5 k, OCI on these engines without monitoring with UOAs at frequent intervals. Google di engines and fuel dilution and there is an SAE paper, about 4 or 5 yrs old now, on the problem. About 3 or 4 months ago there was a thread on the euro BITOG forum started by a lubricant engineer who attended the Nurburgring 24 hr race and he said he talked with many of his cohorts in the pits and the topic of the hour was di and fuel dilution. In the engine I'm most familiar with (the BMW N54 twin turbo di engine) the injectors inject fuel at 1200-1700 psi, compared to 45-75 psi in port injection, with max of 2800 psi on the compression stroke. That gets fuel in the oil and oil film, no matter how good the rings are. And recently I saw a post on one of the BMW forums from a guy with a '07 335i (N54) that had 120k miles on it. Intrigued, I pm'd him and sure enough he had to have the head/intake valves mechanically cleaned. And that was with 3k OCIs.
With all the highway miles I put on my car, I run Mobil 1 at 7500 mile intervals, I could probably go further with a UOA, but I don't want to spend the money, I'll just stick to 7500 miles.
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