Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based???

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,508
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
It is very short sighted to pick an oil because you demand that it have X basestock. Especially if you cannot specifically quantify by UOA or other analytical result, why you need PAO, ester, etc. The "value proposition" argument really just doesnt cut it. I can appreciate that we all want the best value for our money, but utilizing one chemical basestock as that basis is just silly. What performance aspect are you trying to maximize?
I think a little respect is in order here, and deserved for the OP same as what you would demand for yourself. An explanation is not owed, nor required. He simply wants to know about the formulation. It is not necessary to engage in The Inquisition to simply answer the question. shrug
There is no disrespect intended - just rational basis for the discussion at hand; this question comes up even as often as a few times a week in very similar forms. A cursory look at older threads would dig up the same request and discussion over and over again. See JAG's post just above. It references yet another thread discussing this. If there is to be any semblance of learning or trading of rational and correct thought on here, it should include a discussion of the criteria that is of interest. Anytime that anyone uses the basis of "I want x, because I just have to have x", without basis, it is likely not optimal. I invite the OP to procure some pure 11cSt PAO and put it in his engine, since it is so important. He wont like the result. That's not being rude or disrespectful, that is being realistic.
 
Messages
7,672
Location
Hudson, NH
Trav, Whatever was leaked here is simply a company discussing how to market its product while protecting its proprietary brew. It may or may not be the final decision. It may or may not be people that know about oil at all. Maybe its the technical publication writers. Who knows what context this was in. Fully disclosing what makes you different/special/unique is a huge mistake. I see no issue here. Its how all companies operate to keep a competitive edge.
 
Messages
39,585
Location
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I invite the OP to procure some pure 11cSt PAO and put it in his engine, since it is so important. He wont like the result. That's not being rude or disrespectful, that is being realistic.
Agreed. There is more to a good oil than just one particular ingredient. PAO alone is not the holy grail, as much as some members on here would like to believe so.
 
Messages
24,108
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
There is more to a good oil than just one particular ingredient. PAO alone is not the holy grail
True but its funny that every inferior base stock is compared to it isn't it. Fact is it is a superior base stock to GP III comparing apples to apples as far as the add pack goes. Same add pack in both and PAO will out perform the GP III.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The difference is that if the gold watch says 24kt gold, swiss made, and then it is plated and chinese, that is misrepresentation. You can argue Grp III being or not being synthetic (hint - PAO gets its ethylene from the same cat crackers that Grp III gets its slack wax
Take a 90's Breitling 18K and SS, the gold was a wrap (thicker than a plating)on the bracelet links. Some resellers advertise 18K and SS which is blatantly false. The later models were pure 18K links not 18K wrapped SS. Both were Breitling Swiss made with the same 7750 base movement. If PAO gets comes from the same cat crackers as GP III then why was there a PAO shortage and no shortage of GP III? If it were that simple it doesn't seem right that PAO would be in short supply according to Mobil.
Quote:
To support Mobil 1 growth • Global PAO capacity is limited. As we quickly approach this limit
I don't know, just asking.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Whatever was leaked here is simply a company discussing how to market its product while protecting its proprietary brew
Sorry Leaky i disagree on this point. The document clearly show how they were planing to produce bald faced lies (strong language i know but its a fact, call a spade a spade) ) to a particular market segment and how to hide documentation about the product from anyone who asked questions. Shell has no problem telling people their Ultra GPIV/GTL This is my own personal feelings on this subject. Its about honesty and integrity not just performance. I'm not interesting in getting into an argument over this as its my opinion. the OP said..
Quote:
My feeling is that if Mobil One has changed over to a Group III oil, then I'll stop buying it, and look for a less expensive oil. I don't mind paying extra for Mobil One if it is indeed a PAO based oil, but if it isn't then I don't see why I should continue to pay extra for it.
That is a position i agree 100% with.
 
Messages
9,783
Location
Saskatoon canada
This is one of the reasons I just don't like mobil 1 as a whole. That leaked document shows that they are prepared to say whatever they have to(in the unlikely event of that type of question)to anyone with any particular question ad to their basestocks. I keep reading that performance is what matters,not the basestock. Well in the case of the 0w-40 their new formulation doesn't perform as well as the previous formulation,even though it meets the same specs. In the case of the advanced fuel economy the elevated % of pao is why it saves fuel,so if it was formulated differently would the end result be the same. I'm not prepared to spend anymore money on mobil products. Their high price no longer reflects the stuff in the bottle. And in tigs examples,I wonder if he used any synthetic oil at 10000 mile drains would he get the same clean engine. Probably. I think I'm going to stick with sopus and liqui-moly,and royal purple whenever it comes on sale. That mobil vs rp thread when the poster provided pics of a mobil cam with half the mileage of an rp cam,and the wear scar on the mobil cam sold me on that their products are average,yet their genius marketing team had many convinced it's the greatest stuff on earth. I'm not convinced. I am going to buy a couple of cases of the new Mazda oil though. That stuff looks perfect for my stash to help thin all the thick I have. So op. Yes mobil 1 only has a couple oils left with any pao left,up to you to decide if you want to support them.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,508
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm not prepared to spend anymore money on mobil products. Their high price no longer reflects the stuff in the bottle.
So show me a high PAO content oil that sells at the same price as M1. The last M1 I bought was $25.49 for 5 quarts. Do please show me how M1 is so expensive per quart compared to high PAO oils. And I paid what I stated without coupons or rebates, so please keep it apples to apples.
 
Messages
24,108
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
So show me a high PAO content oil that sells at the same price as M1
PU $28 5 qts at wally's 100% PAO/GTL base stock. Confirmed by Pennzoil to a forum member here just a couple of weeks ago. I don't know about you but for $2.50 more I'll take the real deal.
 
Messages
251
Location
Kingman, Arizona
Wow, a lot of really useless responses to a really simple question. That happens a lot here, like the ones who know no better than to say "Read the owner's manual." when someone asks how to do something better or best. Okay, so UOAs say Group III oils give really good protection against iron wear, etc. Still, aren't there other considerations on how well an oil is protecting my engine? For example, ability to dissipate heat and ability to protect the turbo. Sometimes these things won't show up in a used oil analysis. If OP and I foolishly wish to buy oils that are mainly PAO and ester based don't we have that right and don't we have some kind of right to accurate information so we can make our foolish choices? For me, I look to other considerations like flash point and cold temp flow point in addition to price to help me decide on an oil. Then I change my oil excessively early so it doesn't matter quite so much. Yep, foolish, but then I do a lot of foolish things, like eat too much.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,508
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
So show me a high PAO content oil that sells at the same price as M1
PU $28 5 qts at wally's 100% PAO/GTL base stock. Confirmed by Pennzoil to a forum member here just a couple of weeks ago. I don't know about you but for $2.50 more I'll take the real deal.
And what is GTL basestock? The GTL base oil is a “really great quality [API] Group III synthetic base stock,” Mark Ferner, Shell’s U.S. Lubricants Group manager, told a media briefing here July 14. http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002169298.cfm?x=b11,0,w See, not saying that PAO is bad or that you dont want it... Im saying you have to have a little knowledge and not paint with too broad a brush. "I just wont buy an oil with Grp III because it is _______ (cheaper, inferior, bad value, etc)" may limit opportunity to have an optimal oil at an optimal price point with the best of all aspects.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,508
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Wow, a lot of really useless responses to a really simple question. That happens a lot here, like the ones who know no better than to say "Read the owner's manual." when someone asks how to do something better or best. Okay, so UOAs say Group III oils give really good protection against iron wear, etc. Still, aren't there other considerations on how well an oil is protecting my engine? For example, ability to dissipate heat and ability to protect the turbo. Sometimes these things won't show up in a used oil analysis. If OP and I foolishly wish to buy oils that are mainly PAO and ester based don't we have that right and don't we have some kind of right to accurate information so we can make our foolish choices? For me, I look to other considerations like flash point and cold temp flow point in addition to price to help me decide on an oil. Then I change my oil excessively early so it doesn't matter quite so much. Yep, foolish, but then I do a lot of foolish things, like eat too much.
These things dont show up? SO youre saying that we dont measure oxidation, viscosity change, flashpoint, etc? More than one means to an end... Im no Grp III, nor PAO apologist. Im for making a true informed decision not based upon some self-proclaimed value proposition that doesnt really exist, for an application that doesnt necessarily really need it, nor will it see a benefit over the unit's lifecycle. Look at the work that RI_RS4 did on what is arguably one of the most aggressive designed engines? Yep, it wasnt PAO, in fact, the standard PAO/POE and similar oils didnt stand up in his studies compared to specialty basestocks used there. Again, broad brush. Can you get sufficient protection with a proper blend of basestocks, not relying on 100% PAO? yes. No wonder BMW runs these oils in aggressively power dense and high oil-temperature prone N54/55 engines as an example. Doesnt Ferarri use XVHI basestocks in the helix ultra oils that they recommend??? Again, trying to have max fraction of PAO "just because" is shortsighted. Far from everyone has an application and an OCI where it is critical... And if you want/need it, youre paying Amsoil/Redline/RP prices, NOT M1 prices. Nothing wrong with wanting PAO, POE or whatever else... But have a real basis and understand why, and what the trades are.
 
Messages
6,012
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: Fred H.
Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based?*??
[*ring, ring*] Hello? Oh, hi. Its for you -- its the year 2000 and they'd like their thread back.
 
Messages
1,478
Location
Iowa
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Wow, a lot of really useless responses to a really simple question.
??? The (too) simple question was, "Is Mobil 1 a PAO oil or a Group III oil?". The correct answer, as given multiple times in this thread (and countless other threads), is... BOTH! Mobil 1 is a mixture of PAO and Group III base oils, with PAO content varying between 20% and 50% depending on what flavor of Mobil 1 that you choose. If that answer is too "useless" for you to understand, then you really need to find a different forum.
 
Messages
14,732
Location
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Wow, a lot of really useless responses to a really simple question.
??? The (too) simple question was, "Is Mobil 1 a PAO oil or a Group III oil?". The correct answer, as given multiple times in this thread (and countless other threads), is... BOTH! Mobil 1 is a mixture of PAO and Group III base oils, with PAO content varying between 20% and 50% depending on what flavor of Mobil 1 that you choose. If that answer is too "useless" for you to understand, then you really need to find a different forum.
Also esthers. M1 base stocks are a blend of several stocks equal to if not better than PAO alone. Here is a link. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1990677
 
Last edited:
Messages
251
Location
Kingman, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Wow, a lot of really useless responses to a really simple question.
??? The (too) simple question was, "Is Mobil 1 a PAO oil or a Group III oil?". The correct answer, as given multiple times in this thread (and countless other threads), is... BOTH! Mobil 1 is a mixture of PAO and Group III base oils, with PAO content varying between 20% and 50% depending on what flavor of Mobil 1 that you choose. If that answer is too "useless" for you to understand, then you really need to find a different forum.
The difference is, yours is an actual answer. No need to be a jerk about it.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,508
Location
New Jersey
Honestly there was no reason for that answer as the OP could have searched and found that having been stated about a million times... So the other responses, aimed to foster learning, are actually the most valuable, if the OP cares to utilize the discussion.
 
Top