Is it bad to change the oil now?

[zimmerDN]

It's a 98 Dodge Avenger and it has 100k km on it. It's auto and the transmission fluid has never been changed.

Would it be a bad idea to change it now because I've heard horror stories about transmission that hasn't done the fluid change for long long time will get crippled after the fluid change. Any truth to this?

I am thinking about bringing it to a professional transmission shop to do it? Is that necessary or should I just go to Jiffy or any mechanical shops?

 

[White 03]

Welcome,

From what I have read here I would go ahead and do it. If you have the place to do it and a big catch pan it is not to difficult to do yourself. Make sure you get the right type of fluid to put back in. If you don't have a drain plug you will have to drop the pan and you might want to do the filter or screen also. Be careful with the torque on the little pan bolts and figure what gasket you will need if any. I would also think of doing two changes with up to 5000 miles between to get more of the old oil out and flush out anything that comes loose.

If you don't want to do it yourself any place you trust should be OK. Professional transmission shop might be more inclined to look at what is in the bottom of the pan. I would be leary of anyone trying to sell me a major rebuild just on what is in the bottom of the pan though.

I have heard some people say the flush machines may to too harsh on an old transmission but it is hard to tell. I don't know, but some people think it might be better to do two changes rather than one of the compleat oil change machines. The thought is it might loosen up too much varnish and stuff causing things to float around and get somewhere they shouldn't be.

Good luck.

 

[moving2]

zimmer- with unknown maintenance history on the transmission, it would be a MAJOR risk to do a complete flush / fluid exchange (which many quick-lube or transmission shops suggest because they make $$$ of them). If I were you, I would just do drain/fills over the course of a long period of time (like every other oil change). I speak from personal experience on this, having wrecked a $5k+ transmission in a 93 Landcruiser in a similar situation and with friends who've done the same in the past. DO NOT FLUSH- it will provide you with no real benefits over several drain/fills over a long period of time, and flushing is a much bigger risk. Drain/fill and drop pan/replace filter if it has one. Just my .02.

 

[rpn453]

I agree that it's best to avoid a flush. Drain and refill is always good.

 

[moving2]

I should add that there is nothing wrong with a neutral-pressure flush without detergents (such as T-Tech) on a transmission that has had regular fluid exchanges and drain/fills. I now have a '97 Landcruiser and I drain/fill every 15k and do a neutral-pressure fluid exchange every 30k with no problems, but only because I know the maintenance history, which was regular 15k drain/fills. 82k and no problems. My '93 Landcruiser's transmission failed within a short period after getting a transmission flush at 83k with unknown maintenance history.

 

[demarpaint]

I met someone recently that runs a transmission shop, and basically said he gets a lot of work from people who never serviced transmissions that had them flushed at a Quick Oil Change outfit. His Suggestion like others is to drop the pan and filter, run the car vehicle for about 10,000 miles and repeat. The flush is too harsh for an old unit that has not been serviced.

Frank D

 

[Al]

Do not take it to the quick lube place-as mentioned. I agree with moving2: Drain and filling over time will work and is safer.
If you have a drain plug-great. Probably a drain will get you a 50% changeout. Do several of them (say a week apart). If not then you could one of two things: Get it changed out at a respectable place or run it up on a ramp and siphon a couple quarts out at a time. Don't even consider it without getting it up on a ramp. Also, warm fluid will flow better.

 

[moving2]

zimmer- better safe than sorry. Again, I'd recommend doing a drain/fill every other oil change (approx. 10k mi.). Too much new ATF at once can break down too much varnish at one time, clogging passages in the transmission. Gradual is better with a high-mileage transmission with unknown-maintenance. No real benefit to more frequent drain/fills at this point and potentially more risk.

 

[Pablo]

100K simply is not that many miles. What does the fluid look and smell like?

I can't speak for all the machines on the market, and I don't recommend any flush machines, but changing the fluid is better than doing NOTHING. Now if the vehicle had 400,000 miles, maybe just bag it.

Your choice, I recommend a home "flush", but draining and adding over time is an OK option.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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100K simply is not that many miles. What does the fluid look and smell like?

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And I think some people in this thread have forgotten that the person is in Canada, and he mean 100,000KM not 100,000 miles. 100,000KM is only about 60,000 miles, which is a fairly short service interval.

I went ahead and looked up this car, and found that it takes ATF+4. And please tell me why 60,000 miles is too long for ATF+4, which is a very high-quality fluid.

In fact, ATF+4 is spec-ed for lifetime fill under normal conditions, and 60,000 miles under severe service.

A pan drain takes out 4 qts of the total 9qts, so you remove approx 40-50% of the fluid with each drain/refill.

I would go to the local Chrysler dealer and buy a gallon of ATF+4. Go home and drop the pan, clean the magnet, and clean (or replace the filter). Add a $10 drain plug into the pan for quick drain/refills between filter changes it you desire. Put everything back together and refill. If you installed a drain plug, and you desire to, you should drive the car for about a week, then do one more drain/refill through the drain plug, but that's totally unnecessary.

Some of you guys on this forum REALLY need to get used to extended service intervals.

EDIT: Some Chrysler transmissions call for a "band adjustment" upon transmission service, not sure if this one is one of them.

 

[Al]

Well, my recollection is that Chrysler transmissions for the most part are not the best. If you wait until 60K miles to change oil on a Nissan I promise you will be on your way to the Auto Trannie doctor before 100K. I have seen enough Oil analysis to say that for certain.

I don't think that 60K is too long generally to change. But delaying much further is premature death for many transmissions. Obviously there are transmissions that will be O.K. though. Early oil change I think pays big dividends. Just an opinion though.

 

[unDummy]

The problem with a flush is you never know if the correct fluid is being used. Since it is a questionable condition transmission, stick with OEM ATF.

And, I would too just drop the pan, change the filter, top her off, and go from there. If you want, have them install a drainplug to make future drain/refills easier.

The problem with flushes is that some shops will use certain chemicals. Do NOT let any shop add any type of flush chemical to the ATF prior to a flush(if you go that route). A filter and fluid exchange is all you want.

100k isn't much on a transmission that is gently driven. It all depends on the owners. Canada is pretty cool. I don't expect that transmission to have overheated too frequently.

 

[Ramblin Fever]

I have the GM 4L30-E transmission in a Rodeo; just went through this myself.

Have always done regular change-outs averaging every 30-35k or so, I now have 154k miles, have done 4 flushes and 2 drop pan change-outs, with no issues.

However, this last round I opted to do the drop pan/new filter/fill up, and I will stick to that routine from here on out.

I'm not comfortable doing any more flushes on this transmission, have had the T-tech flushes and they have not been a problem, but I've never had any major leaks and would prefer not to cause any.

 

[zimmerDN]

I am saying this is a long interval from the last transmission fluid change (since the car was built lol) because the manual says the oil should be replaced every 24k km (15k mi). Don't ask me why it states that but it does and I am speaking about Severe Service Maintaince Schedule.

I think I will go ahead and drop the oil pan, clean magnet and replace the filter (only $10).

So OEM ATF+4 from the dealership is good enough? I want this transmission to last.

How do you go about adding a drain plug?

 

[The Critic]

OEM ATF+4 from the dealer is good enough. ATF+4 is designed to last 100,000 miles or longer.

I'm not sure how to add a drain plug to the pan...there are instructions that come with the package. If unsure, post in the mechanical tips section of the forum on this site.

I'd definitely add a drain plug. After dropping the oil pan, changing the filter and refilling, drive the car for about a week, then do a drain/refill again from the drain plug only.

I was just reading a product data sheet from PetroCanada and it says that their ATF+4 has been officially approved by DC as a service fill fluid. Are you able to buy that for a lower price than the OEM fluid? Please check the price for me as I'm curious.

If the price is similar, I'd just stick with the Dealer ATF+4 to be safe.

More info on the Petrocanada ATF+4 here:
PetroCanada

(Click on ATF+4 Link)

Correction: ATF+3 was actually factory fill for this application, but ATF+4 is definitely the preferred product as its a significantly improved fluid.

 

[zimmerDN]

I just heard from another person saying that I should have the car leveled as I do the drain.

I have no idea why or what he said. Something about the balls inside??? Seems like a crazy thought to me.

I can only imagine getting oil everywhere would be the worse of my problem when the car is not leveled.

Yah how do you guys avoid getting oil everywhere when you drop the oil pan?

 

[PandaBear]

I loose the screw from a corner and gradually loosen its neighboring bolts, so when the seal separate from the pan/block it starts from a corner. Have a pan catching it from the bottom and as soon as ATF come out and stop wrenching. The fluid stream should fit in a 12" by 16" pan that I use. Make sure you have lots of newspaper below the pan just in case.

Wait till the fluid stop coming out, continue to wrench out the rest of the bolts.

 

[zimmerDN]

I just went to the dealership to pick oil today. They insisted that I should use ATF+3. Only cars (or just avengers maybe) from 2000 and up needs ATF+4.

I just checked my Chilton's repair manual and it suggested ATF+3 also.

I should be ok right?

 

[The Critic]

ATF+3 was indeed factory fill for this transmission, sorry for the initial mis-info. (Dam* Amsoil product app guide!

)

ATF+3 is fine.

The ATF+4 does however, have a longer service life and would also work.

 

[Pablo]

Don't blame the Amsoil guide. It recommends Amsoil ATF. And says basically ATF+4 is what Dodge is now saying for the Avenger.