Is CR-V AWD really that bad?

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Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by nthach
IMO, you can't beat Subaru AWD for the hoi polloi. Audi quattro is good as well.


The AWD used on the GC and Durango is also excellent.

I think Mopar worked with Magna on those, seeing how the GC does have some common roots with the Mercedes ML.

It is Mercedes platform and yes, AWD is done by Magna-Steyr.
 
I've got a 2004 WRX 5-speed. Not an electronically controlled system - just 50/50 front rear all the time. I wonder if the limited-slip diff makes much of a difference.
 
Roller tests are useless.

Teeter-totter tests will never be encountered by any intelligent driver.

If you off-road (not soft-road), ground clearance and locking or LSD diffs are far more important.

On the road, the only time you'll notice anything is if your vehicle rear-biases power. The CX-5 does this, and, along with my 2000 Outback with LSD, and my Mitsu Eclipse with LSD, are wonderful to -drive-.

My A4 plowed straight on snow-covered streets. So much for Torsen... The newer Impreza and Outback, both without LSD, front-bias torque, and drive just like any FWD, but with a bit more get-go.

I hugely prefer rear-bias. I love power-on oversteer.
 
The marketing only AWD system in my cheap [censored], junky Korean Santa Fe didn't even flinch at the 12 inch heavy snowfall we had this year. Must've been a fluke eh? Didn't even have dedicated snow tires, either.
 
Originally Posted by dbias
Quattro is a very good AWD system but there were many adjustments made over the years....

https://youtu.be/dgX4vJYx-4U

It's more complicated than the ShopDAP video.

Basically (excluding R8), you have 3 quattro longitudinal systems, Torsen, Crown Gear Diff and Ultra Technology. Of course, with Transverse, you have haldex.

The Ultra Technology (magna), is similar to a Haldex 5, that it can decouple the rear differential to operate in FWD mode, but can shift more power to the rear than Haldex 5 (iirc, 80% rear bias compared to 50% on Haldex 5).
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Marketing is a interesting thing. It can give one confidence in something that in itself can be a scourge.

No matter if a vehicle has awd or not, the weather conditions, the tires and the experience of the driver all add up to a safe drive. One can drive the "best" Subaru or whatever but if the tires are not good it won't matter. I've seen plenty of Subies and VW vehicles stuck in bad conditions along with the rest.

I like having the awd. In many cases it has helped me to avoid accidents. When the snow hits in my region it's like paying bumper pool. This past winter was no exception. A good friend has a new CRV and she got around just fine.


When the STI came out on 2004, I heard many people say... it doesn't need snow tires, it has a rally-bred AWD system (came stock with summer tires). A roommate of mine fell into that Kool-Aid, and tried to run the stock summer tires on a STI in plowed snow. Didn't get anywhere.

Hopped into my old FWD diesel with snow tires, and made it to a party that night. The next Monday, he ordered snow tires mounted on wheels from TireRack.

AWD helped me to get up the steep hill leading to my house, where as FWD + snow tires (even with Nokian Hakka RSI's at that time) struggled and ultimately failed. These hills were steep enough that snow plow crashing into a ditch was a common occurrence.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've got a 2004 WRX 5-speed. Not an electronically controlled system - just 50/50 front rear all the time. I wonder if the limited-slip diff makes much of a difference.


Limited diff on rollers/sheer ice on front and back wheel would be your only chance of car moving otherwise it would spin away.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by nthach
IMO, you can't beat Subaru AWD for the hoi polloi. Audi quattro is good as well.


The AWD used on the GC and Durango is also excellent.

I think Mopar worked with Magna on those, seeing how the GC does have some common roots with the Mercedes ML.

It is Mercedes platform and yes, AWD is done by Magna-Steyr.


Yes, it's a Magna system. The MP3010 is I believe, what's in my SRT. It has an electronic locking rear-diff as well. More info here:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_tcases.htm
 
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've got a 2004 WRX 5-speed. Not an electronically controlled system - just 50/50 front rear all the time. I wonder if the limited-slip diff makes much of a difference.


Limited diff on rollers/sheer ice on front and back wheel would be your only chance of car moving otherwise it would spin away.


Once I was in Yosemite in the winter and saw a patch of piled snow on what was a parking area. That was fun. Intentionally went right into it and even with AWD I wasn't moving very quickly. I was spinning the tires but was more or less swimming along until I finally had enough momentum to get out of the pile of snow. It was on fairly new Potenza RE960as tires.

But I tried something similar with my wife"s 2002 Civic in rather sad tires. They were cheap Sumitomos front and cheap Falkens rear. Found a patch of snow in a terraced parking garage. Basically this section of the garage was avoided so there were no tire tracks. Hit it and then I just stopped intentionally to see what happened. Nothing quite like spinning the tires and going nowhere. I finally gained enough momentum to get out of it, but worst case scenario I could have shoveled the snow to enable me to drive out of it.
 
As someone who actually lives and drives where this sort of thing matters every day for about 8 months, I think people make far too much out of this.

You can argue, technically, that the CR-V has an inferior AWD system, and I wouldn't disagree. However, the system is perfectly adequate in practical situations when equipped with the proper tires. A CR-V on snow tires will absolutely blow the doors off a Subaru, VW or Mercedes with it's OEM tires in the snow and ice. A lot of people here own them (including my mother), and I have driven them before in bad weather. They're fine. The system is not made for serious off roading, and would not perform well in such a situation, but this isn't an issue given as no CR-V driver is buying their vehicle to do that.

The key, and this applies to every vehicle, is to get and use bona fide 3PMSF snow tires and learn to drive in the weather. If you do that, you will be just fine in a CR-V, or really most things. The CR-V is popular because it's a reliable, safe, relatively comfortable, spacious small "SUV" (in reality, it's more of a jacked up Civic wagon, which is just fine IMO) that gets pretty good MPG for what it is, and rides and handles like a car. It even has decent ground clearance, which is actually a pretty big deal up here given the snow piles and ice shelves you will regularly encounter in the winter months.

You can all argue the nuts and bolts of it's AWD system all you like, but meanwhile Honda will keep selling the things by the truckload, as they are a very compelling vehicle in their very popular segment, and always have been. They're fine and will suit most drivers well.
 
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Originally Posted by littlehulkster
As someone who actually lives and drives where this sort of thing matters every day for about 8 months, I think people make far too much out of this.

You can argue, technically, that the CR-V has an inferior AWD system, and I wouldn't disagree. However, the system is perfectly adequate in practical situations when equipped with the proper tires. A CR-V on snow tires will absolutely blow the doors off a Subaru, VW or Mercedes with it's OEM tires in the snow and ice. A lot of people here own them (including my mother), and I have driven them before in bad weather. They're fine. The system is not made for serious off roading, and would not perform well in such a situation, but this isn't an issue given as no CR-V driver is buying their vehicle to do that.

The key, and this applies to every vehicle, is to get and use bona fide 3PMSF snow tires and learn to drive in the weather. If you do that, you will be just fine in a CR-V, or really most things. The CR-V is popular because it's a reliable, safe, relatively comfortable, spacious small "SUV" (in reality, it's more of a jacked up Civic wagon, which is just fine IMO) that gets pretty good MPG for what it is, and rides and handles like a car. It even has decent ground clearance, which is actually a pretty big deal up here given the snow piles and ice shelves you will regularly encounter in the winter months.

You can all argue the nuts and bolts of it's AWD system all you like, but meanwhile Honda will keep selling the things by the truckload, as they are a very compelling vehicle in their very popular segment, and always have been. They're fine and will suit most drivers well.

Aren't you just biasing towards the AWD CR-V? I'd rather be driving a FWD CR-V in winter conditions with proper winter tires than an AWD version with the OE all-seasons.

But in its category, I believe the Forester is the superior option for winter driving with other variables equivalent. There's a Subaru dealer in the middle of a town of 2000 in the Sierra Nevada foothills. They basically survive by selling to people living in Tahoe.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
As someone who actually lives and drives where this sort of thing matters every day for about 8 months, I think people make far too much out of this.

You can argue, technically, that the CR-V has an inferior AWD system, and I wouldn't disagree. However, the system is perfectly adequate in practical situations when equipped with the proper tires. A CR-V on snow tires will absolutely blow the doors off a Subaru, VW or Mercedes with it's OEM tires in the snow and ice. A lot of people here own them (including my mother), and I have driven them before in bad weather. They're fine. The system is not made for serious off roading, and would not perform well in such a situation, but this isn't an issue given as no CR-V driver is buying their vehicle to do that.

The key, and this applies to every vehicle, is to get and use bona fide 3PMSF snow tires and learn to drive in the weather. If you do that, you will be just fine in a CR-V, or really most things. The CR-V is popular because it's a reliable, safe, relatively comfortable, spacious small "SUV" (in reality, it's more of a jacked up Civic wagon, which is just fine IMO) that gets pretty good MPG for what it is, and rides and handles like a car. It even has decent ground clearance, which is actually a pretty big deal up here given the snow piles and ice shelves you will regularly encounter in the winter months.

You can all argue the nuts and bolts of it's AWD system all you like, but meanwhile Honda will keep selling the things by the truckload, as they are a very compelling vehicle in their very popular segment, and always have been. They're fine and will suit most drivers well.

Aren't you just biasing towards the AWD CR-V? I'd rather be driving a FWD CR-V in winter conditions with proper winter tires than an AWD version with the OE all-seasons.

But in its category, I believe the Forester is the superior option for winter driving with other variables equivalent. There's a Subaru dealer in the middle of a town of 2000 in the Sierra Nevada foothills. They basically survive by selling to people living in Tahoe.


Snow tires trump AWD with all seasons, sure, but even Honda's kinda-sorta AWD system still does bring some advantages. A 2wd with snows is usually fine, but there are situations where an AWD is going to work better. One of them is punching through snow banks, which is something we have to do pretty often around here. AWD is also better in deep snow.

A FWD CR-V with snow tires would be fine in most situations, but a lot of people insist on AWD, and Honda's system works just fine for the vast majority of them. Nothing against Subaru, they're just fine and very popular up here, too, but ultimately you either get into your driveway or you don't, and any situation that'd stop a CR-V with snow tires is one where you really should not be driving.
 
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
As someone who actually lives and drives where this sort of thing matters every day for about 8 months, I think people make far too much out of this.

You can argue, technically, that the CR-V has an inferior AWD system, and I wouldn't disagree. However, the system is perfectly adequate in practical situations when equipped with the proper tires. A CR-V on snow tires will absolutely blow the doors off a Subaru, VW or Mercedes with it's OEM tires in the snow and ice. A lot of people here own them (including my mother), and I have driven them before in bad weather. They're fine. The system is not made for serious off roading, and would not perform well in such a situation, but this isn't an issue given as no CR-V driver is buying their vehicle to do that.

The key, and this applies to every vehicle, is to get and use bona fide 3PMSF snow tires and learn to drive in the weather. If you do that, you will be just fine in a CR-V, or really most things. The CR-V is popular because it's a reliable, safe, relatively comfortable, spacious small "SUV" (in reality, it's more of a jacked up Civic wagon, which is just fine IMO) that gets pretty good MPG for what it is, and rides and handles like a car. It even has decent ground clearance, which is actually a pretty big deal up here given the snow piles and ice shelves you will regularly encounter in the winter months.

You can all argue the nuts and bolts of it's AWD system all you like, but meanwhile Honda will keep selling the things by the truckload, as they are a very compelling vehicle in their very popular segment, and always have been. They're fine and will suit most drivers well.

Tires are everything, FWD with snow tires is much better choice than any AWD with all-seasons in snow.
Toyota SIenna I have has also POS AWD. It is slow to react (I really do not know how to compare to CR-V, but it is not something to brag about). But with snow tires, it does its job on the streets of Colorado Springs where elevation fluctuates between 5800ft and 7200ft, so it is up and down configuration. It does its job in the Rockies. Is it Audi? far from it. But it goes, and with snow tires it is painful to be stuck behind all AWD cars, especially Subarus who are struggling going up
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
As someone who actually lives and drives where this sort of thing matters every day for about 8 months, I think people make far too much out of this.

You can argue, technically, that the CR-V has an inferior AWD system, and I wouldn't disagree. However, the system is perfectly adequate in practical situations when equipped with the proper tires. A CR-V on snow tires will absolutely blow the doors off a Subaru, VW or Mercedes with it's OEM tires in the snow and ice. A lot of people here own them (including my mother), and I have driven them before in bad weather. They're fine. The system is not made for serious off roading, and would not perform well in such a situation, but this isn't an issue given as no CR-V driver is buying their vehicle to do that.

The key, and this applies to every vehicle, is to get and use bona fide 3PMSF snow tires and learn to drive in the weather. If you do that, you will be just fine in a CR-V, or really most things. The CR-V is popular because it's a reliable, safe, relatively comfortable, spacious small "SUV" (in reality, it's more of a jacked up Civic wagon, which is just fine IMO) that gets pretty good MPG for what it is, and rides and handles like a car. It even has decent ground clearance, which is actually a pretty big deal up here given the snow piles and ice shelves you will regularly encounter in the winter months.

You can all argue the nuts and bolts of it's AWD system all you like, but meanwhile Honda will keep selling the things by the truckload, as they are a very compelling vehicle in their very popular segment, and always have been. They're fine and will suit most drivers well.

Aren't you just biasing towards the AWD CR-V? I'd rather be driving a FWD CR-V in winter conditions with proper winter tires than an AWD version with the OE all-seasons.

But in its category, I believe the Forester is the superior option for winter driving with other variables equivalent. There's a Subaru dealer in the middle of a town of 2000 in the Sierra Nevada foothills. They basically survive by selling to people living in Tahoe.

Forester with snow tires will put to shame any Honda or Toyota with AWD and snow tires.
Forester with all season tire does not stand a chance against those cars with snow tires, and some FWD cars with snow tires.

Problem with Subaru is not car, it is owners who think they bought ultimate snow machine (that is how it is advertised) and neglect tires. They are by far most common in the ditch here in CO once snow hits.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Forester with snow tires will put to shame any Honda or Toyota with AWD and snow tires.
Forester with all season tire does not stand a chance against those cars with snow tires, and some FWD cars with snow tires.

Problem with Subaru is not car, it is owners who think they bought ultimate snow machine (that is how it is advertised) and neglect tires. They are by far most common in the ditch here in CO once snow hits.

Well, yeah.

I remember a coworker who insisted that his Audi A4 Quattro on all-seasons was all that was needed in snow without any adjustment to driving style. As someone who has slid out in such conditions, yeah I know that was BS when the effect of tires on braking/steering are considered.

That being said, I've heard some claims that the manual transmission AWD systems with purely mechanical 50/50 distribution react better to poor traction conditions than electronic systems. And there's a huge criticism of the CR-V AWD system that's generally a 90/10 until it electronically kicks in, and may kick in slowly.

I've talked to enough people that apparently large SUVs with 4WD labels are the ones that end up in ditches more than other vehicles.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by edyvw
Forester with snow tires will put to shame any Honda or Toyota with AWD and snow tires.
Forester with all season tire does not stand a chance against those cars with snow tires, and some FWD cars with snow tires.

Problem with Subaru is not car, it is owners who think they bought ultimate snow machine (that is how it is advertised) and neglect tires. They are by far most common in the ditch here in CO once snow hits.

Well, yeah.

I remember a coworker who insisted that his Audi A4 Quattro on all-seasons was all that was needed in snow without any adjustment to driving style. As someone who has slid out in such conditions, yeah I know that was BS when the effect of tires on braking/steering are considered.

That being said, I've heard some claims that the manual transmission AWD systems with purely mechanical 50/50 distribution react better to poor traction conditions than electronic systems. And there's a huge criticism of the CR-V AWD system that's generally a 90/10 until it electronically kicks in, and may kick in slowly.

I've talked to enough people that apparently large SUVs with 4WD labels are the ones that end up in ditches more than other vehicles.


IMO, it's not SUVs, it's pickups.

I hate pickups in winter. The problem is not snow, which they do pretty well in, it's ice. Given as a pickup has a big, heavy engine in the front but nothing in the back, the weight distribution is all messed up, which causes the tail to get very loose on ice. That combined with the high center of gravity, steep hills and generally poor handling means things can go very bad, very quick. Even snow tires won't entirely fix the problem with a pickup. There will always be a massive traction difference between front and rear, and when they do go, they tend to do so quickly and violently.

It doesn't help that drivers of big brodozers all think they're invincible and way overdrive the conditions, either. Just this winter I saw a guy in a jacked up Chevy, complete with massive skyjacker decals, lose the rear going around a corner and slam into a light pole, all while I went smoothly by in my little Mazda. I'm a big enough man to admit I laughed at him.
 
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What it comes down to is if you want "real AWD" there are a select few models. Do your research.

If you want wimpy AWD, which is honestly all most city drivers not in the mountains need, buy whatever and don't research.

As an FYI, AWD systems, Subaru and others, need meticulous maintenance, from my experience. Drain and fill diffs and transmission as required, or maybe more often.
 
CRV falls into FWD+(Kick as needed) while others like Subaru and some Jeeps fall into full time AWD.

Reality is 95%+ of driving AWD does little however those 5% times AWD matters and there is a gap.
 
I have an 08, never had a problem, goes through anything. Have some friends with the 2018's, love them. It's the most highly rated vehicle in its class according to the "experts". Personally I'm not a fan of the way they look, but that's just opinion anyway
 
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