Insurance company shenanigans

wdn

Messages
1,248
Location
NH
Thread starter
My son totaled a car on my policy. It was not his fault, it it was a single car accident on a very icy and slushy day in late December on the state highway. It had collision coverage on it but not rental coverage. Using the carrier's own approved collision repair center it took two weeks to get an appointment. We bring the car in 1/13 The insurance company gave us the appointment date for appraisal. My son at the body ship Enterprise delivered a rental but he paid out of pocket. Enterprise offered the insurance company discounted rate but asked about claim. He said he is paying out of pocket because he's not the policyholder and it's not covered under the policy. They gave him the lower rate anyway. He paid the collision damage waver which was another $xx/day rider on the rental. Nothing bad happened to the rental car. He books a 12 day rental waiting for car to fix. He is also shopping for a new car. A few days later ins. co. calls me and says they heard from the body shop and damage may total the car. They need to send an adjustor to look it over and assess condition then use a 3rd party car valuation service. Didn't you already do that? No. Time passes. A few days later get another call we are sorry your car is in fact totaled the value of repair is 95% of car value, valuation we got is $5,xxxx. A tad lowball but reasonable. Within a couple hundred of my opinion. I said OK. Now I have to meet the guy at the body shop a few more days later to sign over power of attorney, on his schedule, and receive the payoff check. More time passes. By now it is 1/20 I meet the guy in his appointment date, get and deposit a paper check. I have a email from insurer saying car is totaled you may remove car from policy so I do it on 1/20 and list date of casualty, 12/30. Get another email from insurer. We see you removed the car from policy. Do you have a rental in relation to the claim? If Yes please wait until Enterprise gets its car back. In the meantime we have not removed the totaled car from your policy. OK sure, whatever you say. Time passes. The 12 day rental ends, son extends it another few days while dealership is prepping his new car. Enterprise is fine with it. He's the one doing the renting. It's an out of state dealer meaning dealer has delivered new car to our driveway then ferries a couple of dealership guy to the town hall for the tax/registration. Typical New England stuff. On 1/29 the paperwork is done. Enterprise rental is returned intact. I go online yet again and cancel remove the car again. 1/29 is a Wednesday. Friday evening a message is left on office phone bright and early followed up by an email. Please call Joe at your convenience about cancellation on the car policy, have you returned the rental car? Bright and early Monday morning I see the message light and call Joe. Now is is February 3. Did you have a rental and was the rental returned? Yes, and yes. I have also removed the car from my policy, twice. What day did you return the car? On January the 29th, sir. But I want you to remove the totaled car retroactive to the date of the casualty, which is last Demember 30. Not so fast, says Joe. Your policy although it didn't cover a free rental car, did cover your liability for rental car COLLISION and you were covered until Enterprise got its car back. Joe is very polite but you can see where he is going with this. He wants me to keep paying the insurer. That is fascinating Joe, I appreciate my excellent insurance policy. However my son rented the car, not me, and he paid out of pocket. It's on his signature and his credit card. He is completely severed from my policy coverage on the rental. He also paid the CDW so he is covered by Enterprise's insurance carrier during the rental. The car rental was not part of this collision claim in any way. He happened to need a rental car while he was shopping for a new car. Joe, the car was totaled on the day of the accident. You told me the collision totaled the vehicle so coverage and premium ends retroactive to December 30. If I had paid extra for a rental car rider we would not be having this conversation, but neither did you pay for the car rental. My records show I tried to remove the car twice already but you held it on my policy at your convenience including until this phone call. Joe then asks asks is your son adding his new car to this policy? No — my son is not on this policy, he bought his own car, and insured it on his own with another insurance company. [He used to be on it but I removed him in 2010 when he joined the Navy. They still had his name as occasional driver but not on the paperwork]. At this point I said Joe let's keep this simple I have heard from you, answered your questions, and I am going to explain my position. The car was totaled at the very end of 2019. I brought the car into your shop on your timetable in good faith hoping for some body work and paint but instead you totaled the car. Your call I had no say in it. . Fine. I kept all the appointments you set including your two week delay in appraising it but when I handed the keys to the body shop, I never saw the car again. The only time car was driven in 2020 was to the body shop, but you could have just as easily sent your guy to my house for the appraisal the day after the collision. An experienced eye knows a totaled car. I want the car entirely removed from my policy effective 12/30, and when I look at my 2020 insurance premium bill I do not want to see that car on it whatsoever. Now, please quote my adjusted 2020 premium minus that vehilce and how much you are taking off for that car. But before you do that please check your records including all the appointments, dates and delays, that your match my records and my notes. Please also check my two prior attempts to delete the vehicle from the policy, both of which were reversed by your company. They did agree to that. They took about $500 off my policy and car is gone for 2020. It should have been a lot easier than though. It was never adversarial but I thought Joe was fishing. I wonder what I could have handled differently or if I should add rental coverage.
 

JC1

Messages
4,741
Location
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Sounds like they have no idea about customer service. That's part of the problem with large companies. Maybe it's time you shop for a new insurance company? I finally changed insurance companies last May. Been with the previous company since 1995. When I called the company to cancel, the Underwriter says let me see what I can do. My reply, "Don't bother, every other time I called about rates going up, you made some other excuses about people being bad drivers driving the same car as your wife". Although the new company wouldn't offer collision on a 23 year old car, I'm saving $300 a year on her car.
 
Messages
2,786
Location
USA
The insurance company's point is that a driver has to be listed on some sort of insurance policy to be covered while driving a rental car. So usually customers just keep their policy active and transfer it to the replacement car after they buy one. Here the customer did drive a rental car but didn't crash it, so he thinks the insurance company owes him a refund.
Originally Posted by SeaJay
I think any single car accident is the fault of the driver, even if road conditions were poor.
Correct. Hitting unforseeable objects in the road like a deer or something dropped by another vehicle is not your fault. Continuing to drive in bad weather is.
 
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Messages
35,854
Location
ME
I suspect Enterprise gave your kid the "insurance discount" even though not requested, and/or is trying to double bill both him and your insurance. Which is how your insurance knows about the rental. It's like when you go to the doctor on a high deductible plan and pay everything even though you have insurance.
 

wdn

Messages
1,248
Location
NH
Thread starter
Originally Posted by mk378
Here the customer did drive a rental car but didn't crash it, so he thinks the insurance company owes him a refund.
I don't expect you to reread my whole long account, but no the customer did not drive a rental car (with or without crashing it). Nobody on the customer's policy rented a car either. The customer's son who is not on the policy rented a car with his own money, and payed the rental car out of pocket including paying for rental insurance. He just happened to rent from Enterprise that apparently has a business relationship with my insurance company, instead of renting a car from Hertz. In the United States and Canada all you need to rent from Enterprise is the following:
Quote
Meet the renting location's minimum age requirements. Have a valid driver's license. Be able to provide an acceptable form of payment.
That's it. Nobody is required to have their own personal insurance policy in order to rent a car. That is why CDW exists.
 
Messages
431
Location
Daytona Beach
To OP, wdn, thank you for taking the time to describe your experience with car insurance companies. They have to be the lowest of the low when it comes to customer service. I wish I could understand and explain things to them in the way that you did. A very admirable job! After 15 years years with Allstate, I finally realized that their "Vanishing Deductible" never really vanished! Yes, it was stupid on my part, but you actually pay a premium for the deductible to be "0". After a few years, guess what, the amount you paid far exceeds the amount of the deductible anyway! So ultimately, you end up paying the deductible every policy renewal, whether you have an accident or not. I have now started dealing with Progressive. By far the shadiest I have found yet! But at this point, they are saving me about $400 every 6 months so I'll stay with them for a while at least.
 
Messages
35,854
Location
ME
Geico asked me way more questions than Progressive. Seems like one of those traps. How many miles will you drive this car vs your other car? How many days will you drive this car to work vs the other one? Do you use the car for business or pleasure? (I commute in it like everyone!) Progressive started calling me "Platinum" and subtly raising my rates so they had to go.
 
Messages
4,107
Location
SW Ohio
Originally Posted by JohnG
I have now started dealing with Progressive. By far the shadiest I have found yet! But at this point, they are saving me about $400 every 6 months so I'll stay with them for a while at least.
I've heard decent things about Progressive when they are your insurance carrier. It's the other person that they screw over (when the Progressive insured person is at fault).
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,535
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by JohnG
I have now started dealing with Progressive. By far the shadiest I have found yet! But at this point, they are saving me about $400 every 6 months so I'll stay with them for a while at least.
I've heard decent things about Progressive when they are your insurance carrier. It's the other person that they screw over (when the Progressive insured person is at fault).
I can vouch for that. Ive had to sue the company itself in fact, to force an outcome.
 
Messages
4,107
Location
SW Ohio
A guy hit my wife and kids years ago. He was borrowing the vehicle, which was insured by Progressive. Totalled our vehicle and my wife and son went to the hospital. Junior claims agent was calling Monday morning (accident happened on a Friday late afternoon) offering to settle everything for $2500. But first, he wanted to interview our 7 and 4 year olds as they were in the vehicle. I told him to go away until we get more information on my wife's injuries. She had a legitimate neck injury, son just hit his head on the seatback in front of him and got a nice bruise because he had taken off his shoulder belt.... Junior called once a week until I contacted an attorney friend who offered to help. After 3+ months, it got bumped up to a higher-level claims rep who told us the vehicle owner had $12,500 in liability coverage (state minimum in Ohio at the time). Ever wonder how they offer such low premiums to their clients ? They typically quote the bare-[censored] minimum coverage allowed in the state that the potential client lives.
 
Messages
177
Location
No. California
Originally Posted by SeaJay
I think any single car accident is the fault of the driver, even if road conditions were poor.
Ah, I call them crashes. Accidents are more like "acts of God" which is very rare. Crashes are what happens 99% of the time. Someone goofed somehow.
 
Messages
4,107
Location
SW Ohio
Originally Posted by wdn
My son totaled a car on my policy. It was not his fault, it it was a single car accident....
When it's a family member, it's not their fault. When someone else is driving too fast for the conditions on icy and slushy roads and hits you, it's their fault though. grin
 
Messages
5,990
Location
Connecticut
Originally Posted by eljefino
I suspect Enterprise gave your kid the "insurance discount" even though not requested, and/or is trying to double bill both him and your insurance. Which is how your insurance knows about the rental. It's like when you go to the doctor on a high deductible plan and pay everything even though you have insurance.
This.
 
Messages
561
Location
MO
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Ever wonder how they offer such low premiums to their clients ? They typically quote the bare-[censored] minimum coverage allowed in the state that the potential client lives.
You can complain to the state legislature about the required minimum liability coverage. Be thankful the person had any insurance at all as a lot of times all they can afford is the minimum, otherwise they go around uninsured. If you don't have a pot to [censored] in, why would you buy $250,000 in liability insurance?
 
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Messages
431
Location
Daytona Beach
Quote
Progressive started calling me "Platinum" and subtly raising my rates so they had to go.
Yeah, everybody gets Platinum if they have been continuously insured by ANY company for the previous 5 years. I enrolled in their Snapshot program. No big deal, I had it with Allstate for years. You plug the device into the OBD2 port and drive normally. It's way too sensitive to sudden braking, which dings you, but otherwise pretty good. Anyway, I got an "A" rating and earned an $85.00 discount on renewal. UNFORTUNATELY, when you first enroll, you get a "New Customer Discount" (spelled teaser rate, which they deny) and upon renewal, that goes away, effectively cancelling out the Snapshot discount. Talked with several reps from the company, all with varying stories as to whether the discount continues after the first renewal. Manager finally assured me that it did, even though the device is sent back after the first renewal. It remains to be seen what will happen to my rates upon renewal. No accidents in 50 years of driving.
 
Messages
5,887
Location
Texas Hill Country
I never hire an insurance company, hire a broker and let them run the numbers before every renewal. We are currently with Progressive through our broker, but that can change every 12 months to someplace else. Progressive offers a pretty good discount if you purchase a 12 month policy in full and we do that.
 
Messages
24,425
Location
Central Florida
Originally Posted by JustinH
I never hire an insurance company, hire a broker and let them run the numbers before every renewal. We are currently with Progressive through our broker, but that can change every 12 months to someplace else. Progressive offers a pretty good discount if you purchase a 12 month policy in full and we do that.
Yep. I agree.
 
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