I don't get the whole "must be low saps" thing..

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Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
 
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I'm learning too so I'm honestly not sure... I'm told there is like 2, maybe 3 approved 507 oils that I can use and I'm just not keen on them. I love T6 and a few other true diesel oils and want my Passat to last. I'm not worried about emissions equipment and that .00001 mpg. I want this car to go 400k miles. Of course, T6 is also $22 a jug at Walmart, easy to find.
 
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That's a fair challenge. The Mercedes OM651 engine in our C class hardly burns any oil, less than half a litre in just under 10,000 miles. So I really wonder if an A3/B4 vs a C3 would make a material difference in DPF life in this engine.
 
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Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
There's still PCV no?? Besides the engine could start burning oil .
 
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Most people here only understand what they see in a UOA or VOA and there is additives that wont show up in either. There are high performance anti-wear polymers in low saps oil that make up for having less zinc. That is an expensive additive and generally isn't used unless necessary. That is why Amsoil low saps oil cost more than a full saps Euro oil. This is a motor oil website. I wish there was more discussion on additives in oils not shown in a UOA-VOA. Pentosin Pento SUPER Performance III 5W-30 is the oil to use in a VW diesel.
 
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+1 I am thinkering with an idea to buy a pail of "low saps" Rimula R6LM for both cars...to simplify my oil stash... Since yaris has DPF filter...and LC is Euro3 engine (without everything) R6LM has ash level just above 0.9x VW 504/507 has it @0.8 max
 
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Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Well you'll know the answer to this around 70k when the dpf is clogged and will cost about 4k to replace. With the quality of 507 oils why someone wouldn't use them is totally beyond me.
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Well you'll know the answer to this around 70k when the dpf is clogged and will cost about 4k to replace. With the quality of 507 oils why someone wouldn't use them is totally beyond me.
Its not as much about the quality of them as it is the limited availability! I despise mail ordering oils, heavy and too expensive to ship. I want to walk into Walmart and buy it on a shelf for ~$22 and go home and change my oil. I'm just simple like that lol. I'm not worried about that POJ DPF as soon as its out of warranty, those parts will likely "fall" off anyway... smile
 
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Originally Posted by racin4ds
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Well you'll know the answer to this around 70k when the dpf is clogged and will cost about 4k to replace. With the quality of 507 oils why someone wouldn't use them is totally beyond me.
Its not as much about the quality of them as it is the limited availability! I despise mail ordering oils, heavy and too expensive to ship. I want to walk into Walmart and buy it on a shelf for ~$22 and go home and change my oil. I'm just simple like that lol. I'm not worried about that POJ DPF as soon as its out of warranty, those parts will likely "fall" off anyway... smile
Is the warranty not extended to like 150k or something on the dieselgate TDI's? You can delete the DPF at any time, everyone on earth who breathes thanks you.
 
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Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Have you ever heard of evaporation loss? Your engine is using oil, you just do not see it on dipstick. Once your engine starts to burn oil, at that point it won't matter is it Low-SAPS or not.
 

JOD

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PNW/WA
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Well you'll know the answer to this around 70k when the dpf is clogged and will cost about 4k to replace. With the quality of 507 oils why someone wouldn't use them is totally beyond me.
Its not as much about the quality of them as it is the limited availability! I despise mail ordering oils, heavy and too expensive to ship. I want to walk into Walmart and buy it on a shelf for ~$22 and go home and change my oil. I'm just simple like that lol. I'm not worried about that POJ DPF as soon as its out of warranty, those parts will likely "fall" off anyway... smile
I mean, if you're not hung up on using an approved oil, you can just use this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-Platinum-Euro-L-5W-30-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-qt/179202222 cheap, readily-available... it carries the Mercedes diesel spec and Dexos 2, low saps.. Using this in my Golf R right now.
 
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Originally Posted by racin4ds
Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Do not run an HDEO in a high-performance gasoline engine, like one with a turbocharger. HDEO's and PCMO's are designed differently with different goals. The problem with an HDEO in your application is that it more than likely uses a hydrogenated-styrene star VII instead of an olefin copolymer (OCP) VII used in PCMO applications. These star VII's are high-(permanent)-shear-stable but low-thermally stable, i.e. dirty, VII's. They retain their viscosity boost well in the long run, but they form more engine and turbocharger deposits, as they run dirty. They are more popular in HDEO application, where viscosity and permanent-shear stability is more important than engine deposits. A car engine doesn't care about shear stability nearly as much. On the other hand, olefin copolymer (OCP) linear VII's are mid-(permanent)-shear-stable but high-thermally stable, i.e. clean VII's. They experience moderate permanent shear, but they run much cleaner. They are very popular in high-performance PCMO applications as well as most other PCMO applications as a result. I discussed a nice article about the deposits caused by star and OCP VIIs: GM turbocharger test: No correlation for deposits with TEOST 33C or moly Therefore, in the long run, running an HDEO may cause problems in your turbocharger etc. Of course, this is only one of the possible problems. There is no reason to stray away from a PCMO specifically designed and certified for engines like yours and run an HDEO designed with quite different priorities in mind, as in the proper VII selection I explained above. You're right though SAPS is not nearly as critical, although higher SAPS will decrease your spark-plug life among other things, such as increasing ash deposits on your piston crowns, and a mid-SAPS oil (SA ⤠0.8%) may be beneficial over a full-SAPS oil (SA ⥠1.0%).
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
HDEO's and PCMO's are designed differently with different goals.
Thanks Gokhan. I've been trying to preach this for years. Very accurate...
 
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Originally Posted by skyactiv
Most people here only understand what they see in a UOA or VOA and there is additives that wont show up in either. There are high performance anti-wear polymers in low saps oil that make up for having less zinc.
Are these star VIIs strong enough for a high RPM (8,500 RPM) with direct cam-to-tapped valve trains?
 
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Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted by skyactiv
Most people here only understand what they see in a UOA or VOA and there is additives that wont show up in either. There are high performance anti-wear polymers in low saps oil that make up for having less zinc.
Are these star VIIs strong enough for a high RPM (8,500 RPM) with direct cam-to-tapped valve trains?
Yes.
 
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down in the park
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Ok, I do get it. It keeps the DPF and other diesel emissions BS safe BUT in a modern engine, like my '13 TDi with 40k miles, it doesn't burn ANY oil so why am I so worried about a particular oil with Low SAPS so it doesn't pollute my DPF/SCR?? I understand, once an engine gets some age on it and starts using some oil it would become more critical. Right now, I'm running Rotella T6 in my Passat, and all I hear is people on the VW forums cringing and yelling at me because it is not a Low SAPS oil... I mean, my car might burn an ounce or two of oil on an OCI... is that really enough to hurt something??? I highly doubt it....
Well you'll know the answer to this around 70k when the dpf is clogged and will cost about 4k to replace. With the quality of 507 oils why someone wouldn't use them is totally beyond me.
80k on full saps oil here, best not tell the dpf... which had a regen yesterday moring, 600 miles after the last one...
 
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