HYUNDAI ; Manual tranny w/o a clutch pedal
- Thread starter odie
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Thanks for that. Must have a lot of drivetrain engineers twiddling their thumbs @ hyundai; they needed something to do. j/k.
This has been tried a few times over the years: Porsche/VW Sport-o-matic, Saab Sensonic, and Ferrari tried it in the early 90s. None were reliable.
i don't see this much different from a DCT. put in gear and add gas and it engages . then row the gears . stuff is done in micoseconds .
Originally Posted by FT92
if memory serves ...I think VW had something like that way back when...I could be wrong
You're not wrong-some of the later air cooled VW Beetles had it, called Auto Stick. Combined the worst of an automatic (wacky vacuum activated clutch, power robbing non-lockuptorque converter) and a manual (having to shift gears). Somehow it sensed your hand on the shifter to allow you to shift-I personally never had one, but a high school friend did, it made his 1600 as slow as my conventional manual 1200 was!
if memory serves ...I think VW had something like that way back when...I could be wrong
You're not wrong-some of the later air cooled VW Beetles had it, called Auto Stick. Combined the worst of an automatic (wacky vacuum activated clutch, power robbing non-lockuptorque converter) and a manual (having to shift gears). Somehow it sensed your hand on the shifter to allow you to shift-I personally never had one, but a high school friend did, it made his 1600 as slow as my conventional manual 1200 was!
I think Chrysler was trying something like this with the 1953 model year. The manual for my dad's '53 Plymouth talked about some models with a fluid drive ahead of the transmission. He had the regular manual transmission though.
And I remember reading about something similar in hot rod magazines in the mid '60s, that is taking out the clutch and putting a torque converter in front of a manual transmission.
I like using a clutch and a manual transmission. I consider it a life skill. My daughter has only ever owned cars with manual transmissions. And my wife double clutches out of habit.
And I remember reading about something similar in hot rod magazines in the mid '60s, that is taking out the clutch and putting a torque converter in front of a manual transmission.
I like using a clutch and a manual transmission. I consider it a life skill. My daughter has only ever owned cars with manual transmissions. And my wife double clutches out of habit.
Citroen had this over 60 years ago, the one in my own CX was very reliable. Many companies have used one at one time or another....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission
Originally Posted by WhyMe
i don't see this much different from a DCT. put in gear and add gas and it engages . then row the gears . stuff is done in micoseconds .
Yeah, wouldn't manually shifting a DCT give you the same thing? So this is a DCT without the smarts?
i don't see this much different from a DCT. put in gear and add gas and it engages . then row the gears . stuff is done in micoseconds .
Yeah, wouldn't manually shifting a DCT give you the same thing? So this is a DCT without the smarts?
There were cars in the 1950s that had manual tranny and no clutch Citroen is the 1st to come to mind.
Nothing new it was there before the auto tranny in Europe.
Nothing new it was there before the auto tranny in Europe.
I'll be honest, I have no idea how this will work. Especially when you really get to rowing through the gears- if you're anything like me, I don't let go of the stick and the adrenaline keeps my grip tight. I understand it will disengage the clutch after you shift, but I wonder if it would know when to reengage the clutch. Either way, I'm intrigued. If it works and is reliable, I'd buy it.
The India market will be the first to get the transmission so there is some info on how it works:
https://www.hyundai.com/in/en/hyundai-story/media-center/india-news.html#itemView
Quote
Hyundai's iMT technology features a Transmission Gear Shift (TGS) Lever with Intention Sensor, Hydraulic Actuator and Transmission Control Unit (TCU). The system has been designed to offer a seamless drive experience by incorporating a cohesive logic between the various components on manual transmissions:
1.Transmission Control Unit receives signal from TGS Lever Intention Sensor, indicating drivers desire to change gears.
2.TCU sends signal to engage Hydraulic Actuator forming Hydraulic Pressure.
3.Hydraulic Pressure is then sent to Concentric Slave Cylinder (CSC) through Clutch Tube.
4.Concentric Slave Cylinder uses this pressure to control the clutch and pressure plate, thereby engaging and disengaging the clutch.
5.Driver is able to seamlessly shift gears without the need to mechanically operate clutch pedal.
https://www.hyundai.com/in/en/hyundai-story/media-center/india-news.html#itemView
Quote
Hyundai's iMT technology features a Transmission Gear Shift (TGS) Lever with Intention Sensor, Hydraulic Actuator and Transmission Control Unit (TCU). The system has been designed to offer a seamless drive experience by incorporating a cohesive logic between the various components on manual transmissions:
1.Transmission Control Unit receives signal from TGS Lever Intention Sensor, indicating drivers desire to change gears.
2.TCU sends signal to engage Hydraulic Actuator forming Hydraulic Pressure.
3.Hydraulic Pressure is then sent to Concentric Slave Cylinder (CSC) through Clutch Tube.
4.Concentric Slave Cylinder uses this pressure to control the clutch and pressure plate, thereby engaging and disengaging the clutch.
5.Driver is able to seamlessly shift gears without the need to mechanically operate clutch pedal.
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I think Chrysler was trying something like this with the 1953 model year. The manual for my dad's '53 Plymouth talked about some models with a fluid drive ahead of the transmission. He had the regular manual transmission.
Not quite. The fluid-drive semi-automatic required a clutch pedal.
https://youtu.be/z4L0NURxm64
I think Chrysler was trying something like this with the 1953 model year. The manual for my dad's '53 Plymouth talked about some models with a fluid drive ahead of the transmission. He had the regular manual transmission.
Not quite. The fluid-drive semi-automatic required a clutch pedal.
https://youtu.be/z4L0NURxm64
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by WhyMe
i don't see this much different from a DCT. put in gear and add gas and it engages . then row the gears . stuff is done in micoseconds .
+1, unless its much less complex because its a SCT (single clutch transmission).
I would think that if companies can make DCTs, and ABS, and all forms of other precision hydraulic and electronic machines, thata clutch actuation thats faster and better than a human foot would be very possible. Give up some control, yes, but still have the overall simplicity and efficiency of an MT.
And if the automated clutching was still lighter than an AT, then its a big win.
i don't see this much different from a DCT. put in gear and add gas and it engages . then row the gears . stuff is done in micoseconds .
+1, unless its much less complex because its a SCT (single clutch transmission).
I would think that if companies can make DCTs, and ABS, and all forms of other precision hydraulic and electronic machines, thata clutch actuation thats faster and better than a human foot would be very possible. Give up some control, yes, but still have the overall simplicity and efficiency of an MT.
And if the automated clutching was still lighter than an AT, then its a big win.
Originally Posted by Uphill_Both_Ways
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I think Chrysler was trying something like this with the 1953 model year. The manual for my dad's '53 Plymouth talked about some models with a fluid drive ahead of the transmission. He had the regular manual transmission.
Not quite. The fluid-drive semi-automatic required a clutch pedal.
https://youtu.be/z4L0NURxm64
Good stuff here. Be sure to also watch part 2 of the link provided.
Guy sounds like Mike Rowe
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I think Chrysler was trying something like this with the 1953 model year. The manual for my dad's '53 Plymouth talked about some models with a fluid drive ahead of the transmission. He had the regular manual transmission.
Not quite. The fluid-drive semi-automatic required a clutch pedal.
https://youtu.be/z4L0NURxm64
Good stuff here. Be sure to also watch part 2 of the link provided.
Guy sounds like Mike Rowe
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Meanwhile Honda is ditching the manual transmission altogether and making no other changes and using this as a reason to raise prices
www.motortrend.com
2021 Honda Civic Sedan Ditches Manual Transmission, Sees Price Jump
The 2021 Honda Civic sedan will only be available with an automatic transmission, and prices have increased on most trims as a result.
My dad owned a Chrysler way back when with a semi-automatic transmission. He described how he let his foot off the gas momentarily to get the transmission to shift. There must have been a clutch for starting out and going from forward to reverse?
It was a old Windsor if my memory is right.
It was a old Windsor if my memory is right.
Your dad is correct. When you took your foot off the gas, it would shift into High Gear and you would hear an audible “Click”. My sister had one and I remember it well Your dad has a good memory. As I remember my sisters car, you could shift the (three on a tree) in the normal fashion,OR you could just leave it in the Third Gear position. When you came to a stop. The gearshift lever stayed in the third gear position but the car would start off in Second Gear. Then while underway, lift off the gas and “click” you were in third. Never had ton use the clutch. (Clutch was to get into reverse and to get into First for the first time).
(My first car, a used 49 Chevy was faster - yes I’m old but still have good memory
).Renault had Ferlec that used magnets, very high tech stuff
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