HTHS decrease?
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Yes, it does. The overall viscosity typically falls (and HTHS is basically the viscosity at very high temperatures), though depending on the specific engine and how the car is driven, it could thicken slightly.
Originally Posted By: blank1
Hello,
i have a question.
Does HTHS decrease during use of the oil in the engine until the Oil change?
Yes, it will begin to shear as they say losing viscosity as per my understanding.
Time to change also if you see a drop in OP.
Hello,
i have a question.
Does HTHS decrease during use of the oil in the engine until the Oil change?
Yes, it will begin to shear as they say losing viscosity as per my understanding.
Time to change also if you see a drop in OP.
HTHS viscosity loss due to oil shear is close to half the rate as the kinematic viscosity loss.
Of course if you have an oil pressure gauge you need not be concerned as HTHSV corresponds with OP and if you maintain adequate OP regardless of the amount of viscosity loss for any reason, then you are maintaining an adequate HTHSV.
Of course if you have an oil pressure gauge you need not be concerned as HTHSV corresponds with OP and if you maintain adequate OP regardless of the amount of viscosity loss for any reason, then you are maintaining an adequate HTHSV.
Thanks for the replies.
The reason i asked this question is because i want to use Mobil 1 0w40 and per the PDS the HTHS is 3.8.It makes me worry that the engine will give pour fuel economy and less horsepower.
SO i wonder,how fast will the HTHS decrease.I could use a lighter oil like Mobil 5w30ESP (but i fear the long-life oil for engine wear due to the fact that they have lower additives),but i wanted to give Mobil 0w40 1 a try and the high HTHS is the only downside i can see.
The reason i asked this question is because i want to use Mobil 1 0w40 and per the PDS the HTHS is 3.8.It makes me worry that the engine will give pour fuel economy and less horsepower.
SO i wonder,how fast will the HTHS decrease.I could use a lighter oil like Mobil 5w30ESP (but i fear the long-life oil for engine wear due to the fact that they have lower additives),but i wanted to give Mobil 0w40 1 a try and the high HTHS is the only downside i can see.
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"High" is relative. Most of the German cars, for example, require an oil with HTHS of 3.5 or greater. But many Japanese and American cars will be fine with something under 3.0.
What car are you planning to use it in? M1 0w40 is indeed a thicker oil targeted at performance engines.
What car are you planning to use it in? M1 0w40 is indeed a thicker oil targeted at performance engines.
It is for a friends vw polo.He has the same engine with my car.
1.400cc 75kw engine.
The engine requires vw 502(the vw 504 is applicable too) but it is not mentioned in the manual due to the fact that it was published in 2002
The european Mobil 1 oil chooser application suggests as first choice Mobil 1 5w30 ESP and second the 0w40.
But he has 80.000miles on the engine and he is afraid to switch to a 5w30 longlife oil for the reasons i mentioned above and also for the fact that he has always been using 10w40 and 20w50 with no oil consumption.
1.400cc 75kw engine.
The engine requires vw 502(the vw 504 is applicable too) but it is not mentioned in the manual due to the fact that it was published in 2002
The european Mobil 1 oil chooser application suggests as first choice Mobil 1 5w30 ESP and second the 0w40.
But he has 80.000miles on the engine and he is afraid to switch to a 5w30 longlife oil for the reasons i mentioned above and also for the fact that he has always been using 10w40 and 20w50 with no oil consumption.
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Originally Posted By: blank1
Thanks for the replies.
The reason i asked this question is because i want to use Mobil 1 0w40 and per the PDS the HTHS is 3.8.It makes me worry that the engine will give pour fuel economy and less horsepower.
SO i wonder,how fast will the HTHS decrease.I could use a lighter oil like Mobil 5w30ESP (but i fear the long-life oil for engine wear due to the fact that they have lower additives),but i wanted to give Mobil 0w40 1 a try and the high HTHS is the only downside i can see.
It won't reduce its horsepower (difference between 30wt and 40wt) unless you're putting in a real thick oil. I use an oil with HTHS of 5.4 and haven't noticed any reduction in BHP or fuel economy.
Thanks for the replies.
The reason i asked this question is because i want to use Mobil 1 0w40 and per the PDS the HTHS is 3.8.It makes me worry that the engine will give pour fuel economy and less horsepower.
SO i wonder,how fast will the HTHS decrease.I could use a lighter oil like Mobil 5w30ESP (but i fear the long-life oil for engine wear due to the fact that they have lower additives),but i wanted to give Mobil 0w40 1 a try and the high HTHS is the only downside i can see.
It won't reduce its horsepower (difference between 30wt and 40wt) unless you're putting in a real thick oil. I use an oil with HTHS of 5.4 and haven't noticed any reduction in BHP or fuel economy.
M1 0w40 will be a fine choice, especially if your friend doesnt want to use 5w30ESP. I will bet money he will not see a power or fuel economy decrease compared to the 10w40 and 20w50 he is used to using.
As far as viscosity is concerned, two attributes affect fuel economy, HTHS and VI. A lower HTHSV and higher VI will improve fuel economy.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As far as viscosity is concerned, two attributes affect fuel economy, HTHS and VI. A lower HTHSV and higher VI will improve fuel economy.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
Yeah he did:
"It is for a friends vw polo.He has the same engine with my car.
1.400cc 75kw engine. "
As far as viscosity is concerned, two attributes affect fuel economy, HTHS and VI. A lower HTHSV and higher VI will improve fuel economy.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
Yeah he did:
"It is for a friends vw polo.He has the same engine with my car.
1.400cc 75kw engine. "
I don't think that engine will shear a VW 502 oil very much.
M1 0w40 would work well, but I would rather go for an oil with an HTHS closer to 3.5.
M1 0w40 would work well, but I would rather go for an oil with an HTHS closer to 3.5.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As far as viscosity is concerned, two attributes affect fuel economy, HTHS and VI. A lower HTHSV and higher VI will improve fuel economy.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
Yeah he did:
"It is for a friends vw polo.He has the same engine with my car.
1.400cc 75kw engine. "
Okay, then for such a low powered unit, I'd do some research to see what's the lightest oil that VW spec's to maximize fuel economy. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a light 0W-30 A1/A5 option. There is for BMW with their LL-01FE 0W-30 (HTHSV 3.0cP), you'd think there would be for a VW Polo?
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As far as viscosity is concerned, two attributes affect fuel economy, HTHS and VI. A lower HTHSV and higher VI will improve fuel economy.
If you want to run a lighter oil than M1 0W-40 make sure it also has a VI at least as high as MI 0W-40 (185).
One that comes to mind is Lubro-Moly 0W-30 which has a HTHSV of 3.5cP and a 186 VI.
Of course you haven't said for what car this will apply to?
You may be able to run an even lighter oil, and if you have an oil pressure gauge, perhaps even a lighter than specified.
Yeah he did:
"It is for a friends vw polo.He has the same engine with my car.
1.400cc 75kw engine. "
Okay, then for such a low powered unit, I'd do some research to see what's the lightest oil that VW spec's to maximize fuel economy. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a light 0W-30 A1/A5 option. There is for BMW with their LL-01FE 0W-30 (HTHSV 3.0cP), you'd think there would be for a VW Polo?
Thanks for the replies.
i have some questions.(mostly his questions)
1.does the fact that he has 80.000miles prevent him from switching to a lighter oil?
2.is 6.000miles OCI good for daily city driven car?
CATERHAM: the 0w-30 is an overkill for our climate(mild to hot)
also 0w-30s are expensive in my country.
He uses his car daily mostly city miles.
My friend wants to switch to synthetic for better fuel economy and extend the OCI.
he likes Mobil 1(me too) so i suggested Mobil 1 esp 5w30.He is afraid of 5w30 oils because he thinks they will increase engine wear.
i found this pic which shows a comparison of VW 504 vs VW 502 ,and from the graph i can see that VW 504 is better in everything.How can this be possible.From VOA's and generally from what i ve been reading in the forum,longlife oils lack of antiwear additives and have low tbn.
Sorry for bad English.
i have some questions.(mostly his questions)
1.does the fact that he has 80.000miles prevent him from switching to a lighter oil?
2.is 6.000miles OCI good for daily city driven car?
CATERHAM: the 0w-30 is an overkill for our climate(mild to hot)
also 0w-30s are expensive in my country.
He uses his car daily mostly city miles.
My friend wants to switch to synthetic for better fuel economy and extend the OCI.
he likes Mobil 1(me too) so i suggested Mobil 1 esp 5w30.He is afraid of 5w30 oils because he thinks they will increase engine wear.
i found this pic which shows a comparison of VW 504 vs VW 502 ,and from the graph i can see that VW 504 is better in everything.How can this be possible.From VOA's and generally from what i ve been reading in the forum,longlife oils lack of antiwear additives and have low tbn.
Sorry for bad English.
1. - No that mileage is not excessive if the engine is in good condition.
2. - 6,000 city miles is not too long on sy' oil. 0W-30 is not inappropriate for your climate; if you want to maximize fuel economy you want a high viscosity index oil.
3. - Switching to synthetic oil (what is he using now?) will not automatically increase fuel economy unless the viscometrics are significantly lighter.
With just city use (no high speed driving) a heavy A3 5w30 oil is anything but too light. Engine wear is a direct function of how the car is driven (and of course maintained) and less about the oil that is used.
2. - 6,000 city miles is not too long on sy' oil. 0W-30 is not inappropriate for your climate; if you want to maximize fuel economy you want a high viscosity index oil.
3. - Switching to synthetic oil (what is he using now?) will not automatically increase fuel economy unless the viscometrics are significantly lighter.
With just city use (no high speed driving) a heavy A3 5w30 oil is anything but too light. Engine wear is a direct function of how the car is driven (and of course maintained) and less about the oil that is used.
502 is an oil specification for the United States. 504 applies elsewhere due to the different fuels you have.
currently using http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/74D2D5FE8251F9DD8025790B004F8DC2/$File/BPXE-8LSV5B_0.pdf
he is between
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/3923E29F69D029A480257B190058E0A0/$File/CBAY-8K5DW3_0.pdf
OR
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5w30.aspx
His driving style,is mostly low rpm's and very rare high RPM spirited driving.(rev llimit for this engine is 6.800RPM)
i had the same question as my friend with the difference i kept
the same oil i had.Castrol Magnatec 5w40.
he is between
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/3923E29F69D029A480257B190058E0A0/$File/CBAY-8K5DW3_0.pdf
OR
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5w30.aspx
His driving style,is mostly low rpm's and very rare high RPM spirited driving.(rev llimit for this engine is 6.800RPM)
i had the same question as my friend with the difference i kept
the same oil i had.Castrol Magnatec 5w40.
You really are splitting hairs in the oil choices you've presented.
For example M1 ESP 5w30 will not likely be noticeably lighter than M1 0W-40 due to it's 21 point lower VI.
Any fuel economy difference would be negligible.
For example M1 ESP 5w30 will not likely be noticeably lighter than M1 0W-40 due to it's 21 point lower VI.
Any fuel economy difference would be negligible.
If you do a lot of short-trips VI might factor into fuel economy, but otherwise HTHS and friction modifier (surprise, oil chemistry matters!) are what really impact fuel consumption.
M1 0W-40 vs GC is a good comparison. Many have noted noticeable power loss and fuel economy with GC compared to other oils. There was also a dyno test from many years ago that compared various oils (at least 10 iirc), and GC did particularly bad especially since it had one of the lowest viscosities (HTHS and kinematic) in the group. M1 0W-40 had higher viscosity (kinematic and HTHS, 3.7 vs. 3.5), and it produced the most power out of all compared.
M1 0W-40 vs GC is a good comparison. Many have noted noticeable power loss and fuel economy with GC compared to other oils. There was also a dyno test from many years ago that compared various oils (at least 10 iirc), and GC did particularly bad especially since it had one of the lowest viscosities (HTHS and kinematic) in the group. M1 0W-40 had higher viscosity (kinematic and HTHS, 3.7 vs. 3.5), and it produced the most power out of all compared.
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