How do you like your turbo car?

[Malo83]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by Olas
contemporary turbo cas use small turbos and clever wastegate control to hit full boost at 1800rpm and they fall off a cliff after 5500rpm. the idea is to give a very broad plateau of torque with lots of area under curve.

some of us have grown up with high revving NA engines whose power increases with RPM, which makes the current generation of turbo cars feel very dull and very artificial to drive. If I wanted loads of boost and loads of power at 2k rpms I'd buy a diesel, I like a curve to climb with RPM for driving enjoyment, a very broad and flat curve just feels boring to drive.


I feel the same way... here is the torque curve for my turbo car (2006 Volvo S40):

Lots of torque coming on very early, but not all that fun to drive IMO.

I like driving a manual transmission... I like the directness of it. My turbo engine with its small but perceptible lag gives a less direct feel... Response from a N/A engine is instant, not time dependent.

Looking at a "Tune" for my GS when the warranty expires, not looking to race or abuse the car but improve the performance and unused potential of the engine and tranny.

https://www.trifectaperformance.com/store/product/1932-2014-2017-buick-regal-20l-turbo-advantage/

 

[Pew]

With the evo it was super fun. The boost in my evo came in all at once so first and second gear is like riding a 600cc c*rocket.

In my eco focus, it's comfortable. The latest PCM factory reflash made the torque a lot more linear so it's like you have the normal 4cyl engine instead of the turbo 3.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by BeerCan
Most of my cars are turbo and I have no problem with them. However my favorite cars to drive are my 2 NA Porsche.

The 968 is an underappreciated Porsche. Amazing that they successfully turned that four cylinder NA engine into a 3.0 litre!

 

[Olas]

To answer the original question more accurately, I like my turbo cars older and with a higher boost threshold, simply because they were more prone to keep on building boost, pulling harder and harder right to the limiter.
The less developed turbo cars with fewer controls and calibrations were more romantic - they were noisier and smellier, they would bang and spit flames by nature of the design and componentry unlike today's fake ‘pops and bangs tune'. The groundbreaking but relatively crude turbo cars were the best, look at the Lancia Delta, F40, SWB Quattro and S1 RST.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted by Malo83
Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by Olas
contemporary turbo cas use small turbos and clever wastegate control to hit full boost at 1800rpm and they fall off a cliff after 5500rpm. the idea is to give a very broad plateau of torque with lots of area under curve.

some of us have grown up with high revving NA engines whose power increases with RPM, which makes the current generation of turbo cars feel very dull and very artificial to drive. If I wanted loads of boost and loads of power at 2k rpms I'd buy a diesel, I like a curve to climb with RPM for driving enjoyment, a very broad and flat curve just feels boring to drive.


I feel the same way... here is the torque curve for my turbo car (2006 Volvo S40):

Lots of torque coming on very early, but not all that fun to drive IMO.

I like driving a manual transmission... I like the directness of it. My turbo engine with its small but perceptible lag gives a less direct feel... Response from a N/A engine is instant, not time dependent.

Looking at a "Tune" for my GS when the warranty expires, not looking to race or abuse the car but improve the performance and unused potential of the engine and tranny.

https://www.trifectaperformance.com/store/product/1932-2014-2017-buick-regal-20l-turbo-advantage/

It would appear they have it for my Malibu as well. I am interested.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by supton
Why is a flat torque curve "not fun to drive"? I have to ask, as I've never had a performance car, as you might guess. The only "nice" vehicle I had was a turbo diesel, with a flat curve; I liked being able to just roll on the throttle and not having to grab gears to wind it out. Less shifting.

Then again, when I had it tuned, it woke right up. But I'm guessing it had an inverse torque curve to what ya'll are interested in, huge peak at 2k and falling off after that.

Because the human perception of acceleration is flawed, and you as a human will feel more acceleration in a "peaky" application than in a flat torque curve, regardless of what the timer says.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by Olas
contemporary turbo cas use small turbos and clever wastegate control to hit full boost at 1800rpm and they fall off a cliff after 5500rpm. the idea is to give a very broad plateau of torque with lots of area under curve.

some of us have grown up with high revving NA engines whose power increases with RPM, which makes the current generation of turbo cars feel very dull and very artificial to drive. If I wanted loads of boost and loads of power at 2k rpms I'd buy a diesel, I like a curve to climb with RPM for driving enjoyment, a very broad and flat curve just feels boring to drive.


A friend of mine has a wrx sti. My cx5 will beat it 5-60, because it's so laggy, but it has insane pickup for only 310hp vehicle of its weight after 3500rpm or so, and driving both, it feels so much faster 5-60. 1/4mile, it's a dead ringer for his ex gfs v6 2018 mustang. I've flogged both cars. The Sti felt way faster.

Area under the curve is where it's at for actual performance. Peaky power is super fun though and preferable for feel goods.

This is why the s2k was such a fun! car. I loved those, but they were twitchy. Not bipolar like a viper or older P car without all the electronic wizardry, but still had some twitch. I personally like my cars super predictable, because I legit do not have the skill level to get all one can get out of the twitchy ones.

My .02


The WRX and the WRX STi have a twitchy throttle/engine torque action in stock form. I am told they benefit from a tune (particularly Cobb?) to "linearize" their behaviour a bit... make 'em more drivable.

I know the WRX does. Friend won't touch his STI though for warranty reasons. He had a WRX before that, and the COBB made a huge difference.

 

[alcyon]

Own a 1980s oil and water cooled twin turbo car. Engine is wimpy off boost, and turbo lag is like 3 seconds in lower rpm ranges. Other than waiting for the boost to kick in , I am happy with the way it drives. At highway speeds is where it shines, no turbo lag at all.

 

[WhyMe]

is there still a " Turbo" surcharge from insurance companies? was pretty common back a 20 years ago when i was a young man

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by WhyMe
is there still a " Turbo" surcharge from insurance companies? was pretty common back a 20 years ago when i was a young man

Not that I'm aware. My insurance didnt change really when I went from a non turbo to a turbo cx5.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by WhyMe
is there still a " Turbo" surcharge from insurance companies? was pretty common back a 20 years ago when i was a young man


None as turbo engines are the base motor typically of bulk of vehicles sold. The recent turbo engine is not about power as before and is more about economy , drivability and power with notable exceptions like the dated Subaru STI engine.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by WhyMe
is there still a " Turbo" surcharge from insurance companies? was pretty common back a 20 years ago when i was a young man


None as turbo engines are the base motor typically of bulk of vehicles sold. The recent turbo engine is not about power as before and is more about economy , drivability and power with notable exceptions like the dated Subaru STI engine.

Lol, back 20 years ago when he was a young man, the STi had the same engine it does today more or less! My friend pulls 20mpg out of his driving it normally/sedately. He got something like 25ish out of his wrx doing similar.

 

[Andrew1972]

OT: The reason STI lingers on with old EJ is Subaru wanted to make the car and chassis superior and did not want to put engineering budget into new engine that could withstand competition.

STI is an amazing car even on track and gravel for price point even with a dated engine. They can change out engine post design and guessing the Ascent engine retuned may find its way in.

 

[GMBoy]

'87 Buick Grand National bought new...the 3.8SFI intercooled turbo still makes me grin after all these years. Mom has a ATS 2.0T that is very fun to drive as well. I have never seem any issues with turbo cars except a Cruze that lost it's turbo due to poor maintenance.

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted by WhyMe
is there still a " Turbo" surcharge from insurance companies? was pretty common back a 20 years ago when i was a young man


Not that I'm aware of. Insurance on my Cobalt is silly cheap, but I do have extra discounts on the car due to other policies with the company plus letting OnStar tattle on my (low) mileage to get that discount. But there are no turbo surcharges, nor were any ever mentioned by my insurer when I asked.

The Cobalt is my first turbo and I have to say that I like it. There is some turbo lag, but nothing that's annoying.

 

[JunkdrawerDog]

1.3l Firefly in my 2019 Renegade TH has been a treat to drive. Plenty of grunt down low to make city driving painless. It's no performance engine. Gets all its work done low in the rev range then signs off early. Makes a great urban errand runner as well as a pretty good backroad explorer.

 

[antonmnster]

Love 'em. Had a few Saab turbos but really love my n54. Effortless power.

 

[bdcardinal]

To this day I still miss my 04 S60R. My mom's Fusion with the 2.0EB is a great car. Plenty of power for a car of its type.

 

[quint]

Really, really miss my turbo Rx7. I had various turbo and non turbo versions over the years and the turbo gave the rotary the lower end torque it was lacking. A tiny bit of lag but not terrible. Once boost came on trying to shift before digging deep into redline was a challenge I frequently lost.

Don't have any cars currently that have turbos but friends/family that do that I have ridden in, they seem pretty impressive.

 

[racin4ds]

I have an '08 Legacy GT with the EJ25 (STI) engine. Moves well for a 4 door family sedan, averages 23-25mpg. Overall, very reliable with 173,000miles on it still runs great. I did replace the turbo at 105,000, which allowed me to buy the car very cheap.

It is a 5 speed, makes it fun. Some lag but not bad. However, it has always had a minor "studder" under low boost which is known in the subaru world as "closed to open loop delay" I guess for emissions, subaru decided to keep the air/fuel at a nasty lean 13.8-14.5 up until about 6-8psi. Only way to fix it is with a custom tune...