Honest question...

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d00df00d

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So, obviously we don't want threads to degenerate into name-calling, reciprocal bashing/trolling, etc., or otherwise break the forum rules. I'm pretty sure we're all agreed on that.

Some of the recent threads got me thinking: Is it even possible to have a discussion about a policy without getting into politics, about metaphysics without getting into religion, about the auto industry without getting into fanboyism, etc.?

I know I've seen a lot a threads that could have become very interesting and productive discussions about cars, the state of the industry, life in general, etc., just end up getting locked or deleted because they've breached the RSP rules. Is this the members' fault for taking them in a bad direction, or are these topics inherently doomed to go bad?

I'm really interested to hear what everyone thinks.
 
It's inherent to accidently bump up against the rules sometimes in a discussion IMO. But some posts and even threads are obviously poilitical etc. from the get go. I hate politics and I like that BITOG is politics free. May it forever stay that way!
 
I don't agree with the site's policy on this at all, but you've got to admit that it does keep the noise level down.

And no, I don't think it is possible to have well rounded conversations about some of the subjects you mentioned without touching on some of the "banned" topics. I'm also a bit confused about the "this is a family site" mantra. How many minors are going to be hanging out on a site full of old guys discussing the ins and outs of motor oil? :)
 
Can someone tell me why we cannot have a discussion on Global Warming or the lack thereof?

If it doesn't go political, why not?

What's wrong with politics and religion anyway? Is it a personal fear or a control issue or just because someone doesn't like it, we cannot udder it?

What is the root reason of the control over people?
 
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Can someone tell me why we cannot have a discussion on Global Warming or the lack thereof?

If it doesn't go political, why not?

What's wrong with politics and religion anyway? Is it a personal fear or a control issue or just because someone doesn't like it, we cannot udder it?

What is the root reason of the control over people?


I suspect that it's more to do with these topics devolving into emotional name calling sessions. We've all seen it on other sites. Some sites allow that sort of thing in the "off topic" or "romper room" area, but some people just don't know when to back off and it can become a very noisy and uncomfortable environment. Adults *ought* to be able to control themselves and behave, but there's a few knuckleheads in every crowd. So I can understand why this site chooses to just nip it in the bud, even though those topics are sometimes fun.
 
What I find strainge is that thread's in which people are figthing but coming to an amicibble solution get locked any way??? See the rescent thread in the Automotive General forum. Then agian we all do live in a nanny state any way so why would Online be any differant?? Name calling doe snot hurt me but stick's and stone's do!!!
 
Some topics, while good topics and very much worth discussing, are bound to eventually violate the RSP rules. If the subject is meaningful enough, people are going to have a hard time holding their tongues.

BITOG is more tame than most sites because of the rules, but there are some topics that I wish hadn't been closed.
 
Originally Posted By: Oilpants
What I find strainge is that thread's in which people are figthing but coming to an amicibble solution get locked any way??? See the rescent thread in the Automotive General forum. Then agian we all do live in a nanny state any way so why would Online be any differant?? Name calling doe snot hurt me but stick's and stone's do!!!


I don't claim to speak for the mods here, so don't take my theory as anything other than one man's opinion.

Why do you keep putting water on a fire after it's out? Because it can still flare up again.

Even if something seems solved, all it takes is for one joker to get the whole thing going again.

So perhaps that's the mode of operation, tamp out the flames and then keep it from catching fire again.
 
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
What's wrong with politics and religion anyway? Is it a personal fear or a control issue or just because someone doesn't like it, we cannot udder it?

I've thought a lot about this. Here is my take:

Religious and political beliefs are underpinned by subjective experience, not objectively verifiable information. So, the integrity of those persuasions often depends on how many people agree.

Moreover, they deal with matters that have a LOT of influence over how many people lead their lives.

In other words, just the fact that someone else is expressing a different view can be threatening to some people.

Combine that with exposure to opposing views and anonymity, and you have a recipe for a flame war -- understandably so, IMO.
 
Godwin's Law - "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

So, to answer your question, No. I do not think these type of questions can be discussed without the thread evolving toward an RSP violation.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Some topics, while good topics and very much worth discussing, are bound to eventually violate the RSP rules. If the subject is meaningful enough, people are going to have a hard time holding their tongues.

I think you're probably right about this. I just wish people would see how much there is to be gained by preventing the discussion from getting out of hand. But I am starting to get the idea that very few people are actually interested in the exchange of ideas for its own sake...
 
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
I don't agree with the site's policy on this at all, but you've got to admit that it does keep the noise level down.

And no, I don't think it is possible to have well rounded conversations about some of the subjects you mentioned without touching on some of the "banned" topics. I'm also a bit confused about the "this is a family site" mantra. How many minors are going to be hanging out on a site full of old guys discussing the ins and outs of motor oil? :)



It is a family site because my kids are often walking by and looking over my shoulder when I'm on the internet. I don't need my 8 year old looking at stuff that is inappropriate. I like the family friendly rules.

I think it is fine to have a site that eliminates the talk of RSP because there are plenty of other sites to do that if you want. I come here for respected opinions on cars, oil, tires, etc. I even check out the computer section on occasion. It is a great site.
 
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
I don't agree with the site's policy on this at all, but you've got to admit that it does keep the noise level down.

And no, I don't think it is possible to have well rounded conversations about some of the subjects you mentioned without touching on some of the "banned" topics. I'm also a bit confused about the "this is a family site" mantra. How many minors are going to be hanging out on a site full of old guys discussing the ins and outs of motor oil? :)



It is a family site because my kids are often walking by and looking over my shoulder when I'm on the internet. I don't need my 8 year old looking at stuff that is inappropriate. I like the family friendly rules.

I think it is fine to have a site that eliminates the talk of RSP because there are plenty of other sites to do that if you want. I come here for respected opinions on cars, oil, tires, etc. I even check out the computer section on occasion. It is a great site.



My eight year old does the same. He wants his own login!
 
Im the same way!!! BITOG is the most risky site Ill go too at home. everything else I check at Work where my kid's wont be affected!!!

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
It is a family site because my kids are often walking by and looking over my shoulder when I'm on the internet. I don't need my 8 year old looking at stuff that is inappropriate. I like the family friendly rules
 
Before I joined this site, I lurked here for a LONG time. I have seen more [censored] discussions with people saying how much they hate the Administrator's rules. You know what? When you say you don't like the site's rules, you are indirectly insluting and probally hurting the owners feelings. If you don't like the rules, don't join. Otherwise, quit saying you don't like Helen's rules. They have served this site well. Do you know how much junk a mod or admin has to put up with? After they dedicate their time to keep a site for people to meet and talk decent? Well, it's a heck of a lot. The last thing they need to see is someone saying they don't like something in/about the rules!

Originally Posted By: Oilpants
BITOG is the most risky site Ill go too at home.


Why, are you planning on breaking the rules? I almost take that with offence.



Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
It is a family site because my kids are often walking by and looking over my shoulder when I'm on the internet. I don't need my 8 year old looking at stuff that is inappropriate. I like the family friendly rules


Man i'm adding you to my UBB Buddies list!
 
It shouldn't be an insult just to disagree with someone. It's another matter if the tone is clearly condescending or there are personal attacks, but just saying you don't agree shouldn't be a threat.

I think that gets at the OP, honestly. People are offended when others disagree with them, and when you combine that tendency with a touchy subject, you get a flame war.

IMO, the rules on this board are totally sensible, and the admins and mods are right to be as tough as they are in enforcing them. I just think they shouldn't HAVE to be so tough. If we're all adults, and if we are truly interested in trading ideas and finding the truth, it behooves us to police ourselves. We should be able to talk about anything without getting into a flame war.

[/pipedream]
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Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Originally Posted By: Oilpants
BITOG is the most risky site Ill go too at home.


Why, are you planning on breaking the rules? I almost take that with offence.


What is you're problem??? What and who's Rule's do I plan on breaking by checking BITOG at home?? I want biTOG to be Clean!!! Just today I read a few vary questionible posts with pretty course language that was definately NOT ratted PG.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
It shouldn't be an insult just to disagree with someone. ...

I think that gets at the OP, honestly. People are offended when others disagree with them, and when you combine that tendency with a touchy subject, you get a flame war..

[/pipedream]
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What surprises me some is that the subject of this afternoon's episode would be considered to be touchy. I wouldn't think people would identify so closely with foreign or domestic vehicles that that would be a problem in the first place. At least on the surface - I really think this subject goes to the level of deep psychology, like people's self indentity, patriotism, etc. It is an icon that is innocuous on the surface, but represents much deeper and fundamental things (of the same intensity as politics and religion) deeper down.
 
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