Honda's first oil change recommendation

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Danh

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It's not news around here that Honda is perhaps the only carmaker that advises against an early change of the factory oil fill. This recommendation seems to have become a bit dormant recently, but as the owner of a new Honda product I'm again wondering why this is important to them.

Honda's assembly lubes are rich in molybdenum, as demonstrated by UOAs of factory fills and the molybdenum seems to be the driver behind Honda's recommendation.

Most car makers, including Honda, advise against full throttle acceleration during engine break-in. From what I understand, this can be detrimental to good piston ring sealing because too much throttle applied too long can create hot spots where there is a lot of piston ring/cylinder wall friction and these hot spots can create glazing, forever compromising the seal.

Could Honda's recommendation be because molybdenum can mitigate these hot spots and glazing should new owners not follow break-in recommendations? Even if this is the case it's hard to imagine much piston ring break-in occurring at 4, 5 or 10 thousand miles, but it's all I've got. And I know the early vs regular OCI of the factory fill debate will go on forever; I'm just trying to understand why Honda is an outlier on this subject.

Does this make sense? Any other theories? Thanks.
 
I don't think they are an "outlier", none of my cars have an early OCI listed in the owner's manual. Honda's recommendation might be more towards the negative side of doing it early but on the other hand none of mine specify it either.
 
Anyone's guess is as good as the next.
Personally on our 2016 Civic - 2.0 K20C2 engine - being a six speed manual , we drove it like normal , not hesitating to rev it or drive it like we drove our other vehicles.
Changed the factory fill and filter out at 30% OLM which was around 6k.
It's a bit early to say at 14k miles , but so far so good.
No oil consumption or any unusual noises.
YMMV
 
Originally Posted By: Bud_One
Anyone's guess is as good as the next.
Personally on our 2016 Civic - 2.0 K20C2 engine - being a six speed manual , we drove it like normal , not hesitating to rev it or drive it like we drove our other vehicles.
Changed the factory fill and filter out at 30% OLM which was around 6k.
It's a bit early to say at 14k miles , but so far so good.
No oil consumption or any unusual noises.
YMMV



Sounds good to me. I used to do the super early changes but what I see is that most often it is not required. To each his own.
 
Do what makes you feel happy inside. I think you are good either way, change early, run all the way to 0 on the OLM.

I changed my 2009 CR-V at 1000 miles. Now at 131,000 with no oil use, no engine issues running the OLM down to near zero with M1 or equivalent each OCI.
 
My wife bought a new CRV in 2008. She was advised to run the factory fill till the maintenance minder told her to change it. I changed it right around 5000 miles and oil life still showed 40 or 50%. I don't remember for sure. I changed it about every 7500 miles since and it has over 200,000 trouble free miles on it now.
 
They also put manganese in their factory fill.
It is an abrasive used to scuff the cylinder walls to help seat the rings.
Combine that with the moly and you have a great break in oil. Just watch the fuel dilution.
I don't know if they are admitting that as an issue or not. Perhaps they have addressed it. Dunno.
 
If Honda's engineers have come up with an "outlier" plan, it's probably because they have reasons. Would they recommend practices that could lead to engine issues or failures, especially under warranty when they're on the hook for the $$$ ?
 
Why not just follow Honda's first oil change recommendation.
 
There's absolutely nothing special about the factory fill (average additive package with high moly from the lube used to build the engine). Engine break in occurs within first hours of it's work and it is likely broken in before you drive off the lot. Just watch the condition of the oil. Not sure what honda you drive but if it is Turbocharged beware of fuel dilution. My oil was done by 4K. It was badly diluted, sheared and low on viscosity. Just common sense. There's nothing special about these mass produced cars. Cheers
 
I think the manual says once you reach 20% of your oils life you should be considering changing it;
From my experience that's about 6.5K
But the dealer sticker calls for 5K which is about 40% OLM

I did mine first oil change at 5K; and I'll stick to that regardless of OLM states, convenient and easy to remember
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There's absolutely nothing special about the factory fill (average additive package with high moly from the lube used to build the engine). Engine break in occurs within first hours of it's work and it is likely broken in before you drive off the lot. Just watch the condition of the oil. Not sure what honda you drive but if it is Turbocharged beware of fuel dilution. My oil was done by 4K. It was badly diluted, sheared and low on viscosity. Just common sense. There's nothing special about these mass produced cars. Cheers


Honda's official position is that doing the first oil change early can cause engine damage. We will not change the oil for the first time until it gets down to at least 20%.

After that, change it every month if you want.
wink.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There's absolutely nothing special about the factory fill (average additive package with high moly from the lube used to build the engine). Engine break in occurs within first hours of it's work and it is likely broken in before you drive off the lot. Just watch the condition of the oil. Not sure what honda you drive but if it is Turbocharged beware of fuel dilution. My oil was done by 4K. It was badly diluted, sheared and low on viscosity. Just common sense. There's nothing special about these mass produced cars. Cheers


Honda's official position is that doing the first oil change early can cause engine damage. We will not change the oil for the first time until it gets down to at least 20%.

After that, change it every month if you want.
wink.gif



To be fair, it's awfully hard to find this language from Honda anywhere now. It certainly isn't in the Owner's Manual and I think it's gone from the FAQ section of Honda's website. The recommendation may be out there somewhere, but it isn't obvious, service departments seem to have never heard of it and most owners are oblivious.

My question was more of a theoretical one: if this was Honda's position, why was it so important and what benefit did molybdenum provide after a couple thousand miles?
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There's absolutely nothing special about the factory fill (average additive package with high moly from the lube used to build the engine). Engine break in occurs within first hours of it's work and it is likely broken in before you drive off the lot. Just watch the condition of the oil. Not sure what honda you drive but if it is Turbocharged beware of fuel dilution. My oil was done by 4K. It was badly diluted, sheared and low on viscosity. Just common sense. There's nothing special about these mass produced cars. Cheers


Honda's official position is that doing the first oil change early can cause engine damage. We will not change the oil for the first time until it gets down to at least 20%.

After that, change it every month if you want.
wink.gif



To be fair, it's awfully hard to find this language from Honda anywhere now. It certainly isn't in the Owner's Manual and I think it's gone from the FAQ section of Honda's website. The recommendation may be out there somewhere, but it isn't obvious, service departments seem to have never heard of it and most owners are oblivious.

My question was more of a theoretical one: if this was Honda's position, why was it so important and what benefit did molybdenum provide after a couple thousand miles?


Our service bulletins are where this info is located. The bulletin states changing the oil too early can cause hot spots to form in the engine, which can damage it. We get a new version of the bulletin every couple of years.

Will not be in the owners manual, because Honda just expects the customer to follow the maintenance minder.
 
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