Honda/Multi-Vehicle ATF Comparison Chart

Originally Posted by discountdon
VOA sample for Lubegard Complete ATF from 2015, I don't know if they have changed the formula since then:

That doesn't claim any compatibility with Honda DW-1, only Z-1.
 
just sent some Valvoline Full Synthetic Import ATF for VOA via ALS Labs, supposedly it's similar to Maxlife Full Synthetic MultiVehicle ATF minus the seal conditioners, higher viscosity, and slightly different additive package (more friction modifiers?) runs super smooth for me... will update upon receipt.
 
Originally Posted by discountdon
just sent some Valvoline Full Synthetic Import ATF for VOA via ALS Labs, supposedly it's similar to Maxlife Full Synthetic MultiVehicle ATF minus the seal conditioners, higher viscosity, and slightly different additive package (more friction modifiers?) runs super smooth for me... will update upon receipt.



I have a question, where on Earth did you find this product? It is darn hard to find in the major chain stores even auto parts stores?
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by discountdon
just sent some Valvoline Full Synthetic Import ATF for VOA via ALS Labs, supposedly it's similar to Maxlife Full Synthetic MultiVehicle ATF minus the seal conditioners, higher viscosity, and slightly different additive package (more friction modifiers?) runs super smooth for me... will update upon receipt.



I have a question, where on Earth did you find this product? It is darn hard to find in the major chain stores even auto parts stores?


Advanced Auto Parts ran a sale in their flyer for 3 months towards the end of 2019 on ALL Valvoline fluids/chemicals/greases (except motor oil) buy one get one half off at $20.99/jug, so it averaged me $15.7425/gallon for 6 gallons. All I did was goto the manufacturer's site and clicked on 'where to buy'... I wished I had gotten a bit more...

This stuff has been around since at least 2013 and it's not rare! It's just too bad its not as popular as the omni-present LV MaxLife MV ATF at WM for $17.97...

Castrol's Transmax Import MV ATF is even thicker still at $14.33/gallon at WM. Castrol also has a LV Synthetic MV ATF that I've never seen offered in jugs...
 
Originally Posted by discountdon
Castrol's Transmax Import MV ATF is even thicker still at $14.33/gallon at WM. Castrol also has a LV Synthetic MV ATF that I've never seen offered in jugs...

Is Transmax Import on sale at Walmart again ? I know, I could check myself.... I bought a gallon bottle last time it was and used it so I really don't need more.

The full synthetic Castrol ATF is not available in 1-gallon packaging (confirmed with Castrol) so that's why you've never seen it anywhere.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by jayjr1105
Originally Posted by discountdon
VOA of Royal Purple MAX also 'suitable for Z-1'

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1544655/voa-royal-purple-max-atf

might as well add legacy Z-1:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/868342/VOA_for_Honda_ATF-Z1_!#Post868342

thanks OP for your hard work!

Any 100C viscosity number for legacy Z1?


i think the above link's photobucket host is down...

Original Honda DW-1â„¢ (Part # beginning with 08200-):
Boron - 272
Silicon - 4
Sodium - 3
Calcium - 353
Magnesium - 204
Phosphorus - 2
Zinc - 320
Viscosity@100C - 6.93 cSt

source link
 
Originally Posted by discountdon
Originally Posted by jayjr1105
Originally Posted by discountdon
VOA of Royal Purple MAX also 'suitable for Z-1'

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1544655/voa-royal-purple-max-atf

might as well add legacy Z-1:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/868342/VOA_for_Honda_ATF-Z1_!#Post868342

thanks OP for your hard work!

Any 100C viscosity number for legacy Z1?


i think the above link's photobucket host is down...

Original Honda DW-1â„¢ (Part # beginning with 08200-):
Boron - 272
Silicon - 4
Sodium - 3
Calcium - 353
Magnesium - 204
Phosphorus - 2
Zinc - 320
Viscosity@100C - 6.93 cSt

source link

FYI when a photobucket image looks like that, right click and do this...
[Linked Image]
 
Last edited:
Added. Thanks for the VOA. Seems rather weak overall from an additive perspective however the viscosity finally matches DW-1/Z1. No other ATF has done that yet.
 
I was poking around for P/S fluid and run into TRIAX lubricants which I looking into, the more, I also run across their ATF also claims be be a universal synthetic PAO based. and Viscosity index of 206!

Global Synthetic ATF Property Value
Density at 15°C(kg/m3) 849
Viscosity at 40°C mm²/s 30.20
Viscosity at 100°C mm²/s 7.0
Viscosity Index 206
Pourpoint °C -55
Flashpoint °C 182
Brookfield Viscosity (-40C) 8,376
Color RED

https://www.triaxlubricants.com/con...ic%20ATF%20-%20PDS-WEB%20July%202018.pdf

Be interesting to get a VOA on this as well.
 
I emailed TRIAX and got a reply quickly from a VP. Customer service is quite impressive!! I emailed the Maxlife people and no response.

Here was the reply:

"Global Synthetic ATF. The thing about ATF is not so much the additive content, which of course needs to be there but the stability of the whole thing. Most importantly being shear stable and film integrity. We use a custom built VI improver, a polymethacrylate, which is extremely shear stable. This makes it possible for the fluid to last a very long time, even under severe conditions. You can have a lot of additives in the oil, but if it shears and the film breaks down, they wont do much good.

We do not use Boron in our ATF because nano borates have an adverse reaction with water. 90% of synthetic ATFs use boron but water reactivity is an issue if you use it, so any condensation or moisture in the transmission would result in the fluid being compromised. ATF transmissions are sealed systems, so the water doesnt go anywhere once it gets in. We do use high levels of boronated dispersants or friction modifiers in engine oils, because the temperature is so high that any water evaporates and is evacuated before it can cause reactions.

We also don't use a high sulfur content because we need to protect yellow metal synchros. If the sulfur is too high the fluid would not be rated "fill for life" as it corrodes these metal components.

Seeing the component content is only a partial indication of the fluid quality. The more important part is how they are linked together and other components which are not visible on any analysis. Its like evaluating a house by the amount of framing wood that goes in it, without evaluating how the joints are reinforced or the actual structural arrangement of said framing. In other words, in oils, more is not better. Hope that makes sense.


Current Production Typicals
N - 1690ppm
Ca - 300ppm
P - 400ppm
S - 950ppm
Bo - 0ppm "



And with the information from PDS:

Global Synthetic ATF Property Value
Density at 15°C(kg/m3) 849
Viscosity at 40°C mm²/s 30.20
Viscosity at 100°C mm²/s 7.0
Viscosity Index 206
Pourpoint °C -55
Flashpoint °C 182
Brookfield Viscosity (-40C) 8,376
Color RED



I might use this in a marine velvet drive application that calls for DEXIII.
 
I emailed TRIAX and got a reply quickly from a VP. Customer service is quite impressive!! I emailed the Maxlife people and no response.

Here was the reply:

Quote
"Global Synthetic ATF. The thing about ATF is not so much the additive content, which of course needs to be there but the stability of the whole thing. Most importantly being shear stable and film integrity. We use a custom built VI improver, a polymethacrylate, which is extremely shear stable. This makes it possible for the fluid to last a very long time, even under severe conditions. You can have a lot of additives in the oil, but if it shears and the film breaks down, they wont do much good.



Polyalkylene-based polymethacrylate's are the usual VII component but may also contain meleic anhydride polymers as well. As far as I know there are no customized VII's since the chemistry of VII polymers are standard industry formulas.

Quote
We do not use Boron in our ATF because nano borates have an adverse reaction with water. 90% of synthetic ATFs use boron but water reactivity is an issue if you use it, so any condensation or moisture in the transmission would result in the fluid being compromised. ATF transmissions are sealed systems, so the water doesnt go anywhere once it gets in. We do use high levels of boronated dispersants or friction modifiers in engine oils, because the temperature is so high that any water evaporates and is evacuated before it can cause reactions.


Well, 99% of ATF's use Boronated compounds in form or another and as far as I know all of the ATF UOA's I have seen show little to no traces of water.

Quote
We also don't use a high sulfur content because we need to protect yellow metal synchros. If the sulfur is too high the fluid would not be rated "fill for life" as it corrodes these metal components.


I have yet to see synchro's in Step-Shift AT's.

I guess the respnder didn't know about 2,5-dimercapto-1,3,4-thiadiazole metal and corrosion inhibitors.
 
I have a 2012 v6 Accord. I'm using RL D6.

Good: It shifts more firm. But not like a shift kit.
Less good: I feel more background trans operation (trailer pulling), now (Its not that bad).

But now you guys are making me worry. The Zinc Vs Phosphorous, seems to be a big difference among other stuff in them...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by MRYGearHead
But now you guys are making me worry. The Zinc Vs Phosphorous, seems to be a big difference among other stuff in them...

I'm by no means a manufacturer fanboy that believes that OEM whatever is mandatory and anything will cause catastrophic failure but I've decided that our Hondas will get Honda ATF. I know Valvoline, etc, etc are dirt cheap but for $40 per drain and refill one time per year, I ain't losing sleep over spending "too much". Honda formulated it in a very, very unique way and no one can explain why. There's educated guesses but what are they really worth ? No one has copied the formulation either though....
 
Over on the Odyssey forum, there are real world experiences of people getting rid of DW-1 and using Maxlife, Amsoil and Redline with success, not to mention peace of mind. These are thoughtful Honda owners who find DW-1 to simply be inadequate.
 
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Over on the Odyssey forum, there are real world experiences of people getting rid of DW-1 and using Maxlife, Amsoil and Redline with success, not to mention peace of mind. These are thoughtful Honda owners who find DW-1 to simply be inadequate.


i have an 03 Odyssey bought used with 100,000km and the oil jet mod/recall was done by the dealer way back when. used Z-1 for a few years then changed to Valvoline Maxlife D/M (red jug) and it's been night and day difference. Should have switched to Maxlife sooner. With Z-1 there was always a bit of a rough 1-2 shift and don't feel a thing with Maxlife. No noticeable gunk on the drain magnet when i change the trans fluid either.

i also have a 2016 Acura RDX and i just did a 4x drain and fill using DW-1. I have no issues with DW-1 as it seems to do the job in that car with no issues. I'll just do a drain and fill every 25K to keep things fresh and keep to the DW-1 in that car.
 
Back
Top