Heat Pumps in Nordic Countries

[ecotourist]

Here is an interesting article on heat pumps, primarily in Norway. Important points are that Norway trained workers to install them, that heat pumps work reasonably well at low temperatures, and because they act as an energy multiplier there are reduced emissions even if fossil fuel is the energy source for electrical generation. Norway prices fossil fuels so that heat pumps will be the cheapest way to heat your house. Canadians reading this will recognize this as a carbon tax.

We've had a heat pump for at least 5 years and think it's great. Our coldest nights here are occasionally -10C (14F) and it's still working fine. Our electricity is primarily from water power.

‘You can walk around in a T-shirt’: how Norway brought heat pumps in from the cold

Device installed in two-thirds of households of country whose experience suggests switching to greener heating can be done

www.theguardian.com

 

[Fredxt]

We had heat pump in the previous place, but it was the dumb heat pump which could only warm up the whole unit. I was thinking is it really more efficient than a simple electric warmer that only warms up the bedroom at night? Nah

 

[k1xv]

This year we completed installation of low ambient temperature MItsubishi heat pumps. We left our oil fired hot water heating system in place. We are on a time of day rate in Vermont, which largely reflects the fact that during the off peak periods (16 hours every weekday and 24 hours on weekends), our power is hydro power sourced from Quebec.

The heat pumps still work below zero, but work harder. We usually switch over to the oil heat when the temperature falls that low.

 

[Pelican]

Here is an interesting article on heat pumps, primarily in Norway. Important points are that Norway trained workers to install them, that heat pumps work reasonably well at low temperatures, and because they act as an energy multiplier there are reduced emissions even if fossil fuel is the energy source for electrical generation. Norway prices fossil fuels so that heat pumps will be the cheapest way to heat your house. Canadians reading this will recognize this as a carbon tax.

We've had a heat pump for at least 5 years and think it's great. Our coldest nights here are occasionally -10C (14F) and it's still working fine. Our electricity is primarily from water power.

‘You can walk around in a T-shirt’: how Norway brought heat pumps in from the cold

Device installed in two-thirds of households of country whose experience suggests switching to greener heating can be done

www.theguardian.com

They try to sell whatever they can with promises that you won't find out out if true till it's too late.
2 things are possible: they may have improved the technology and they could be an interim tool till the real furnace is needed.
1 thing is certain: NO WAY will they really be able to keep you warm in the Nordic temperatures unless you wear down underwear.

 

[Danno]

We've had a heat pump for at least 5 years and think it's great. Our coldest nights here are occasionally -10C (14F) and it's still working fine. Our electricity is primarily from water power.

Northern Ontario here.
-10C is an average high here for the coldest months.
Heat pump is not on my priority list, at all.

For another view on the topic, there's this.

 

[Snagglefoot]

It’s all about the sizing relative to the house. The modern heat pumps have no problem down to minus 18 C here before the electric coil backup kicks in.

 

[OVERKILL]

It’s all about the sizing relative to the house. The modern heat pumps have no problem down to minus 18 C here before the electric coil backup kicks in.

Yup, and efficiency-wise, I suspect the hybrid setup, where you use gas for the super low temps (which is how mine is setup) is better, where you are ultimately going to be using resistive and it minimizes the peak load on the grid, which is why Quebec imports from Ontario in the winter.

 

[vwmaniaman]

When we replaced our AC condenser and evaporator my wife told me in no uncertain terms that it would not be a HEAT PUMP. She has had experience in places with them and said she wanted to feel heat coming out of our vents. So we have a great AC unit and a propane furnace.

 

[Pablo]

Dual fuel is exceedingly hard to beat. Even with a ground sink heat pump. Not sure why this is downplayed. It's not a binary thing, IMHO

 

[Snagglefoot]

Dual fuel is exceedingly hard to beat. Even with a ground sink heat pump. Not sure why this is downplayed. It's not a binary thing, IMHO

I’ve met greenies that want a hydro derived electrical backup system rather than carbon containing natural gas. Too me that’s over the top.

 

[finmile]

Air heat pumps are great for winter heating and are very popular in the Nordic countries, for a good reason.

Here’s for example Mitsubishi Electric EF25. It has COP of 2 even at -30C (-22F). (meaning that with 1kWh of electricity you get 2kWh of heat).


From the figures:
-Blue = input power (electricity)
-Purple = output power (heat)
-Red = COP = heating efficiency calculated from the two previous values

VTT:n testiraportit | Ilmalämpöpumppuvertailu | Scanoffice

Testissä malleja merkeiltä Mitsubishi, Gree, Scanvarm, Panasonic, Fujitsu, Bosch. Mitattavana lämpöteho ja lämpökerroin (COP). Lisäksi hintojen keskiarvoja.

scanoffice.fi

 

[CDX825]

Northern Ontario here.
-10C is an average high here for the coldest months.
Heat pump is not on my priority list, at all.

For another view on the topic, there's this.

He's talking about air to water heat pumps used to replace boilers. Doesn't really apply to those of us in the US or Canada. We use forced air here and forced air works a lot better when it comes to heat pumps.

Air to air heat pumps have come a long way and most people are not up to date on them. When you mention heat pumps to most people they think of the ones from 30 to 40 years ago that were useless below 30 degrees. Modern heat pumps using inverter driven variable speed compressors are capable of heating well below 0 degrees F.

 

[dubber09]

So, they tell us go electric with cars but not with heating and AC? How dare they

 

[greenjp]

So, they tell us go electric with cars but not with heating and AC? How dare they

Uh, heat pumps are electric so I'm not sure what the point here is?

 

[dubber09]

Uh, heat pumps are electric so I'm not sure what the point here is?

Not purely electric, electric heating board is, heat pump has plumbing.

 

[JHZR2]

Heat pumps and EV are popular in Norway for a primary reason - near free electricity in the northern areas. So much water, so much hydro, it’s a no brainer regardless of the price of gasoline and natural gas.

But their sentiment is changing as that electricity can be exported to the rest of Europe… which will drive their prices towards market prices.

This was a sore point with every Norwegian person I met last summer when travelling there extensively.

 

[simple_gifts]

Ground loop heat pumps don't suffer in the cold weather.

You can google

Tapping the heat beneath your feet with Kathy Hannun ...​

For an interview on how a google spinoff got started and the challenges they face.

 

[OVERKILL]

Ground loop heat pumps don't suffer in the cold weather.

You can google

Tapping the heat beneath your feet with Kathy Hannun ...​

For an interview on how a google spinoff got started and the challenges they face.

They are also insanely expensive though.

 

[simple_gifts]

They are also insanely expensive though.

Amazing claim from a nuclear power advocate

The cost savings over the lifetime of the system is very compelling; should be a no brainer for new construction.

No need to make heat, just move it from where it is to where it is needed.