"HE" washer using tons of water (literally)

Originally Posted by walterjay
If you are using 50 gallons of water that should not be. Should be 15-20 for a normal load. How many times is this thing re-filling during a wash load. Is water meter correct? Is there a toilet intermittently running? Do a toilet tank dye test to be sure.

My HE...(maytag or something? Has a sticker "made in america" on it. It's a top loader. Cost 500ish.)

Soak 15m, wash, rinse, rinse. I dunno gallonage, but I'd guess 20-30 for each of those, with soak and wash being same. So probably 100 gallons per use. It may do more than that, but that's what I KNOW it does. I dont pay a water bill so it's not really an issue, but if I did, jeez
 
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Originally Posted by TmanP
About a year and a half ago, our 20-year-old Kenmore toploader called it quits. That thing was a champ...


Our Whirlpool Elite top loader and dryer now getting close to 15 years old. I was thinking of proactively getting a new washer and dryer within the next year to replace them, neither one has ever needed a repair, except I did replace the agitator ring gear thing, $8 or so part 15 minutes.

Anyway, one thing I will not be paying extra for is a HE washer! I use all the water I can when I wash clothes, including turning on the extra rinse cycle on the current washer. My washing machine uses an insignificant amount of water compared to watering my lawn. :eek:)

All I am saying is, I will not repaying attention to how much water it uses when I buy one.
 
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Originally Posted by nickaluch
Get a used speed queen old school like the Kenmore .


This, the only reason I rebuild my own 24 years old unit whenever something breaks.

I don't mind spending a few dollars a week on a few loads, but I don't have time to wash them again, especially finding out after drying them and set the stain permanently and wasting the heat.

Hand wash heavy stain item first to good enough, that's the good old fashion way things are done.
 
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
What is considered a full load? As much as you can fit in without packing it? I find mine shakes a lot if you run with half a load. It will be out of balance and constantly restart a cycle when it sense it's shaking too much. I'll be sitting downstairs and it sounds like big foot is dancing around up there. Reason why I don't leave the house with the washer on.


You need to lay out your clothes in a pattern. Placing similar items in pair on opposite side of the drum or three in a set 120 deg apart. This is like balancing a tire, one layer at a time. I do this and my load stay balanced even with water proof baby mattress cover in them, all the way till the top of the lid, but my wife just dumping them all in will shake and walk the machine out of the laundry closet.
 
Originally Posted by PandaBear
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
What is considered a full load? As much as you can fit in without packing it? I find mine shakes a lot if you run with half a load. It will be out of balance and constantly restart a cycle when it sense it's shaking too much. I'll be sitting downstairs and it sounds like big foot is dancing around up there. Reason why I don't leave the house with the washer on.


You need to lay out your clothes in a pattern. Placing similar items in pair on opposite side of the drum or three in a set 120 deg apart. This is like balancing a tire, one layer at a time. I do this and my load stay balanced even with water proof baby mattress cover in them, all the way till the top of the lid, but my wife just dumping them all in will shake and walk the machine out of the laundry closet.


Our old LG HE top-loader had to be loaded as you describe, so that it wouldn't shake itself apart and stop-start over and over due to the unbalanced load. As I mentioned, I watched most of a cycle (yea, took a long time) and noticed that the clothes stayed in just about the same spot for the duration of the cycle. I was actually pretty [censored] to watch the clothes floating on the top STAY on the top, never getting agitated to the bottom and actually cleaned. This was EXACTLY the same behavior, regardless of whether I used the express wash or "full tub" setting, and regardless of whether the drum has 1/4 full or completely full.

I honestly don't understand how any engineer thought that a tiny little agitator at the bottom would do anything at all. I guess they figured that most people don't put truly dirty clothes, and so long as the clothes are getting touched by soapy water, and then see rinse water, that they'll smell clean enough and no one will notice.

Our current, few-year-old Samsung HE front loader is super quiet. We seriously just load up the front-loader and turn it on, usually on the express setting (26 min, tap-cold, highest spin speed). The clothes come out clean and surprisingly dry.
 
If you think it's rough there in California, try watching various episodes of Life Below Zero TV and see how some Alaskans deal with not having any pipeline water.

I have the HE Washer and use it just like I did for the past 48 years (and two Whirlpool agitation washers) of doing my own laundry. I have very sensitive dry skin and need to do double rinses from November thru March. That's using the best "sensitive and free laundry soaps and no added softeners, bleach......etc.

If one cannot afford their water bill and are not wasting water, sacrifice another expenditure like booze, cigarettes, fast foods, cable TV.....etc..... and quit counting the gallons of water you use. Most of us are resigned to the future governmental dictation of preserving as much water as possible. But until they mandate restrictions here, I'm not getting rid of my HE washer. I think it cleans clothes well. Spot treating stains and pre-soaking clothes that are stained, are all part of the clothes washing conundrum.
 
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
If you think it's rough there in California, try watching various episodes of Life Below Zero TV and see how some Alaskans deal with not having any pipeline water.

I have the HE Washer and use it just like I did for the past 48 years (and two Whirlpool agitation washers) of doing my own laundry. I have very sensitive dry skin and need to do double rinses from November thru March. That's using the best "sensitive and free laundry soaps and no added softeners, bleach......etc.

If one cannot afford their water bill and are not wasting water, sacrifice another expenditure like booze, cigarettes, fast foods, cable TV.....etc..... and quit counting the gallons of water you use. Most of us are resigned to the future governmental dictation of preserving as much water as possible. But until they mandate restrictions here, I'm not getting rid of my HE washer. I think it cleans clothes well. Spot treating stains and pre-soaking clothes that are stained, are all part of the clothes washing conundrum.


Did you mean to say that you're not giving up you NON-HE washer? "H.E." stands for High Efficiency, which is meant to mean less energy and water used per standard cycle.

I don't agree with you that we shouldn't worry about washer energy/water use, especially if there is a way of doing so WITHOUT sacrificing much, if anything. You gave great examples of how one can save money (cutting out a beer every day, one or more fancy frapadapachinos or other expensive coffee drinks, eating smaller home-made portions for meals, etc.) Why not add appliances to that list?

I feel like my current Samsung front-load washer does the best job of any washer I've ever owned, using very little of everything. It cost a lot more than the cheapest Admiral brand, but I know it does a better job, using fewer resources, and I'm hopeful it will last longer. If it doesn't last 20 years without any expensive fixes, I'll eat crow.

//

With all of the praise I have for Samsung's washer, I can't say I'm impressed with the dryer (same with our previous LG dryer). Both dryers, using the max dryness setting, would never result in completely dry clothes, regardless of load size. This usually required AT LEAST another 20 minutes on low heat to be fully dry. This is interesting and frustrating to me, because my dad had a dryer with a moisture sensor that worked perfectly, and this was more than ten years ago, on a five-year-old dryer.

So, it appears we've regressed recently in the search for energy savings in some areas that do affect performance negatively. What this means for us, is if we start a load in the dryer and won't be able to immediately check it (within 12 hrs to prevent any mildew buildup), we have to set it to the Timed setting at a value conservatively high. This ensures our clothes are always dry, but probably wastes a lot of energy, all because they didn't design the moisture sensor correctly. I can't imagine they designed it this way on purpose, assuming people were cool with damp clothes at the end of every cycle.
 
Originally Posted by gathermewool
As I mentioned, I watched most of a cycle (yea, took a long time) and noticed that the clothes stayed in just about the same spot for the duration of the cycle. I was actually pretty [censored] to watch the clothes floating on the top STAY on the top, never getting agitated to the bottom and actually cleaned. This was EXACTLY the same behavior, regardless of whether I used the express wash or "full tub" setting, and regardless of whether the drum has 1/4 full or completely full.

I honestly don't understand how any engineer thought that a tiny little agitator at the bottom would do anything at all. I guess they figured that most people don't put truly dirty clothes, and so long as the clothes are getting touched by soapy water, and then see rinse water, that they'll smell clean enough and no one will notice.

Our current, few-year-old Samsung HE front loader is super quiet. We seriously just load up the front-loader and turn it on, usually on the express setting (26 min, tap-cold, highest spin speed). The clothes come out clean and surprisingly dry.


I saw that when I was using my brother in law's washer in Texas (new Samsung no agitator top loader), it will not fill to cover up the whole load and it will take like 1-2 hr to do a load. I was watching what is going on and it seems like they are trying to mimic the front loader sloshing some water around a load instead of cover the load up with water like a real top loader. I ended up using the "water proof, bedding" setting to make water cover the load up completely.

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
If you think it's rough there in California, try watching various episodes of Life Below Zero TV and see how some Alaskans deal with not having any pipeline water.

I have the HE Washer and use it just like I did for the past 48 years (and two Whirlpool agitation washers) of doing my own laundry. I have very sensitive dry skin and need to do double rinses from November thru March. That's using the best "sensitive and free laundry soaps and no added softeners, bleach......etc.

If one cannot afford their water bill and are not wasting water, sacrifice another expenditure like booze, cigarettes, fast foods, cable TV.....etc..... and quit counting the gallons of water you use. Most of us are resigned to the future governmental dictation of preserving as much water as possible. But until they mandate restrictions here, I'm not getting rid of my HE washer. I think it cleans clothes well. Spot treating stains and pre-soaking clothes that are stained, are all part of the clothes washing conundrum.


I think the problem is not money but rather infrastructure. Nobody can pay enough for water if there aren't enough, like they did in South Africa or Frozen Alaska. Personally I think mandating front loader would be better than allowing these agitator-less top loader around. The problem is the moldy smell, soap build up, and the basket holder breaking off due to the high speed spinning. If they build a consumer machine that resolves all these problem then there's really no reason for agitator-less top loader.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
I would suggest going back to a washboard and a small tub. That's what California is pushing.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/08/new-california-water-law-restrictions-shower-laundry/



Nice to see how you are putting words in people's mouth. It said right in the article that typical usage is 35gal / person / day and the current limit on "city planning" is 55, and they want to shrink it to 50.

This is not a per household mandate, this is a budget of water district, that means if you are the water manager of the district you need to find a way to reduce those waste somehow, like replace city lawn with drought tolerant plants, using recycled water to irrigate those plant, putting out rebates for water saving appliances, and yes, ban the cheap but water wasting toilets.
 
Originally Posted by itguy08
That could be correct. Especially when you figure they have to fill that tub with water to get any type of agitation without an agitator or a way to tumble them.

Top loaders have always been a horrible way to wash clothes. Probably great when detergents were bad and you needed lots of them to get things and not have stuff redeposited but with modern detergents you really don't need much of each to get things clean. We switched to a front loader about 20 years ago (wow, its been that long) and couldn't be happier. Dirty clothes come clean and we can wash bigger things. It uses a small amount of water no patter the load. It does take time - about an hour for a normal load but we're doing like 9 pairs of jeans (that come clean) so the time is about even. I've put some nasty stuff in there (detailing rags) and they come out quite clean. Not perfect but it does great getting all that junk out.

I was reminded how poor top loaders are when I was at a campground last summer with some dirty jeans. Nothing too bad - normal mud on a few pairs plus some shirts. Put them in the old school Speed Queen and 1/2 of them came clean. Back in again to get the rest of the dirt out. Never would have happened in our front loader.


There was something wrong with that washer. My top-loaders (ancient Kenmore, replaced because the structure was corroded to the point of structural failure, new Speed Queen) got all my nasty work clothes clean!
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
I would suggest going back to a washboard and a small tub. That's what California is pushing.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/08/new-california-water-law-restrictions-shower-laundry/



Nice to see how you are putting words in people's mouth. It said right in the article that typical usage is 35gal / person / day and the current limit on "city planning" is 55, and they want to shrink it to 50.

This is not a per household mandate, this is a budget of water district, that means if you are the water manager of the district you need to find a way to reduce those waste somehow, like replace city lawn with drought tolerant plants, using recycled water to irrigate those plant, putting out rebates for water saving appliances, and yes, ban the cheap but water wasting toilets.
I read the article and was surprised that we would currently use under the limit, we don't usually use more than 35 gallons a day per person and that is with doing wash, showers and running the dishwasher multiple times a day. We definitely dont go out of our way to save water in our household, it seems like an easy target to hit.

Now I will say that we go way over that figure if I wash the cars, pressure wash ect...

Im not saying the regulation is good or bad, im just saying that we already meet it without even trying, and honestly if we are talking Southern California, if it meant curtailing my water usage to have 72 and sunny everyday im in lol.

We have had a HE washer for almost a decade, We got it when our child was born and we were doing insane amounts of wash with a washer that could use up to 75 gallons a load (Heavy duty, XL Load, Double rinse). I was concerned about the excessive waste water since we are on a septic, our HE LG front load has been great and really does a good job. It does require some maintenance though that's not listed in the owners manual, if one didn't do the maintenance on it I can see some issues arising.
 
Our old Kenmore top load left deposits on dark clothes also, went with a Samsung front loader and all clean, like it better than a top loader. ;)
 
I'm not a fan of those Maytag topload HEs - they're cheaply made. My parents bought one for a property, it's barely 10 years old but it needs a new gearcase. As much as I bash Samsung for being throw-away, my parent's front-load Samsung only needed two service calls in its lifetime, but it's rusting apart and slowly rattling itself to death, after 10 years of use. I'm gonna push LG for them.

The new Whirlpool/Maytag/Amana toploaders use a plastic clutch and a sealed gearbox, so no rebuilds are possible.

 
50 gallons sounds like a lot of water for a HE machine on 1 load - I have a water dispenser that takes the 5 gallon jugs so picturing 10 of those things for 1 load of laundry is pretty mind boggling. Energy Star rated HE machines should only be using 15-20 gallons per load.

Being a HE top loader I am wondering if it is overly sensitive to unbalanced conditions and keeps refilling and agitating to try to balance the load, not sure if you have monitored it during a cycle to see if there is an excessive # of fill and drains around the spin cycles.

I'm not a fan of those Maytag topload HEs - they're cheaply made. My parents bought one for a property, it's barely 10 years old but it needs a new gearcase. As much as I bash Samsung for being throw-away, my parent's front-load Samsung only needed two service calls in its lifetime, but it's rusting apart and slowly rattling itself to death, after 10 years of use. I'm gonna push LG for them.

The new Whirlpool/Maytag/Amana toploaders use a plastic clutch and a sealed gearbox, so no rebuilds are possible.



Pretty much all the machines outside SpeedQueen are 10 year at best throw aways nowadays. Depending on how the water hardness is at your parents house the tub spider arm mount may still be fine or on the verge of letting the tub free from its spider arm shackles. It is the known weak link in pretty much all front loaders and is typically not covered under any extended tub warranty - repair costs typically make it a time to trash it and get a new one decision.
 
Pretty much all the machines outside SpeedQueen are 10 year at best throw aways nowadays. Depending on how the water hardness is at your parents house the tub spider arm mount may still be fine or on the verge of letting the tub free from its spider arm shackles. It is the known weak link in pretty much all front loaders and is typically not covered under any extended tub warranty - repair costs typically make it a time to trash it and get a new one decision.
the Samsung at their house has typical Korean/Chinese/Japanese light steel with very little corrosion protection. But there’s a roar when it spins - the bearings are starting to go. And unfortunately Samsung sells the bearings as part of the rotor and tub assembly - it’s direct drive.

The Maytag at a rental has a bad gear case - it’s on national back order.
 
Please expand on this as I'm the owner of LG FLs
So every so often I clean the seal, that may be in the owners manual, not sure, Then I take a q tip or rag and insert it in between the inner and outer drum and the seal and make a full revolution. Lint and junk gets trapped there on our model. Then of course there is the filter that needs to be checked and cleaned, This is in the manual though.
 
Okay thanks. After the cleaning cycle, I take a small towel and run it through the entire ins and outs of the door seal. I noticed on mine, residue begins to build at the bottom of the plastic ring inside the 3 drain holes inside the door seal, so I'm thorough at wiping that area down.
 
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