Havoline ProDs

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Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by tiger862


Now do I dump this or wait? 2500 miles on oil since April so I was going to April then decided to change at 5k since mileage is down now I know how much it costs more I just want to cut my losses and dump it. It is a shame cause I don't have any problems other than fuel mileage. Opinions appreciated.



If you are obsessing about fuel economy to this extent, my opinion is that you dump the Caravan for something more fuel efficient. That WILL solve your mysterious fuel economy issue.









Why dump something that is perfect for my needs. If I can save 100.00 a year in fuel then why not? 100.00 in fuel saves me enough for insulin that is 200.00 a month and I had a smaller SUV which got worse Mileage. I hate asking for a truck then having to have someone stay with wife so I can go pick up something which I can do comfortably with Caravan. (Wife had a stroke and in wheelchair). I do more with less than someone who makes more and fuel cost is only one way.
 
I ran Havoline oil for years when I started driving, never had any issues. My dad ran Havoline also with no issues.


Threads like these are hilarious at best, thanks for the entertaining posts! 🤣ðŸ‘
 
You may have tried LiquiMoly 2009 anti friction additive.
Both my cars got noticeable improvement in gas mileage since I added it in them 2 weeks ago during oil changes.
Sportage went from 25.5mpg to 27.3mpg.
 
Even weather can have an effect on mileage. Not to mention winter/summer gas, a change in spark plugs/filters, etc.

That doesn't even count unconscious bias that you might have in your driving style. It seems you had made up your mind about havoline early on. It's totally possible that you subconsciously changed your driving style to suit your preconceived notions. Even barely noticeable changes in your driving could result in differences that you documented.

Just think you could potentially improve your mpg just by thinking positively about havoline!
 
Originally Posted by BLND1
Even weather can have an effect on mileage. Not to mention winter/summer gas, a change in spark plugs/filters, etc.

That doesn't even count unconscious bias that you might have in your driving style. It seems you had made up your mind about havoline early on. It's totally possible that you subconsciously changed your driving style to suit your preconceived notions. Even barely noticeable changes in your driving could result in differences that you documented.

Just think you could potentially improve your mpg just by thinking positively about havoline!


Nope I tried to like it. I even made a conscience effort to improve fuel economy. I went more than double hwy miles compared to previous oil change and next change. I log miles religiously and when you fill up and realized you went 100 miles shorter on a tank then I got concerned. 13 mpg vs sticker of 17 and I usually average 20. I always best EPA in all vehicles
With Havoline mileage was everywhere from 13 to 25 but other oil was 18 to 24 and last tank all in town no interstate 21.7.

2018 Grand Caravan
13175
 
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Originally Posted by tiger862
Ok here are updated numbers.
14 tanks fuel Napa Synthetic Blend 20.74 mpg. 600 hwy miles.
11 tanks fuel Havoline ProDs 19.88 mpg. 1200 hwy miles
3 tanks Valvoline Daily Protection 21.53 mpg. 170 hwy miles


Originally Posted by tiger862

Nope I tried to like it. I even made a conscience effort to improve fuel economy. I went more than double hwy miles compared to previous oil change and next change. I log miles religiously and when you fill up and realized you went 100 miles shorter on a tank then I got concerned. 13 mpg vs sticker of 17 and I usually average 20. I always best EPA in all vehicles
With Havoline mileage was everywhere from 13 to 25 but other oil was 18 to 24 and last tank all in town no interstate 21.7.

2018 Grand Caravan
13175


Your own math shows a less than 1mpg average change in fuel economy when switching from NAPA to Havoline, well within the margin of error. You're trying to split hairs between oils on a vehicle that is publicly driven, not filled accurately (it could fill to 95% one time, 90% the next, then 98% the third time), in variable weather conditions (cold air is denser than warm air, rain/snow vs clear, etc). We went from ~40's to a high in the low teens with snow within a week. That alone will change fuel economy.

My fuel economy on 0w40 should put me in the teens... yet our 2018 Grand Caravan and 2016 300 (v6) are unchanged.
 
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It's a good thing you aren't running any kind of statistical analysis that people might need to rely on.

People are sitting here telling you that it is nearly impossible to control variables in your situation And attributing something to one variable is literally folly and you're just digging your heels in.

Here's my best advice: if you don't like havoline - for whatever reason (literally, it could be you hate the bottle design) - don't use it. Use the oil that you feel is best for you. Bottle design, perceived mpg differences color, texture, mouthfeel, blotter testing, or which ever one splashes less when you toss it out of an airplane - it doesn't matter, just pick the one you want.

But you aren't going to convince anyone that your sophomoric testing is indicative of anything remotely resembling causation. Especially something that is outlandish as a modern oil from a modern manufacturer creating conditions that drop your mpg so significantly compared to the exact same grade in another brand.
 
The below is the truth. I get more variation by uncontrolled traffic pattern changes and temperature swings and what direction the wind is blowing(that one is major) than I do from changing from 0w20 to 0w40.
Originally Posted by BLND1
It's a good thing you aren't running any kind of statistical analysis that people might need to rely on.

People are sitting here telling you that it is nearly impossible to control variables in your situation And attributing something to one variable is literally folly and you're just digging your heels in.

Here's my best advice: if you don't like havoline - for whatever reason (literally, it could be you hate the bottle design) - don't use it. Use the oil that you feel is best for you. Bottle design, perceived mpg differences color, texture, mouthfeel, blotter testing, or which ever one splashes less when you toss it out of an airplane - it doesn't matter, just pick the one you want.

But you aren't going to convince anyone that your sophomoric testing is indicative of anything remotely resembling causation. Especially something that is outlandish as a modern oil from a modern manufacturer creating conditions that drop your mpg so significantly compared to the exact same grade in another brand.
 
The majority of friction in an engine occurs in the piston/ring/cylinder wall interface where viscosity doesn't mean much. If you run a 0w-20 and 0w-40, with the same add pack, in an SRV, you'll hardly see a difference in friction coefficient. Load either one up with 400 ppm blend of Molyvan 855 and Molyvan 3000, and replace half of the ZDDP with ionic esters, and you'll see a substantial difference.
 
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I really don't care. Everyone is trying there best to convince me that my 1 year data is wrong. Only variables changed was oil and as stated my opinion and yes down 1 mpg is 66.00 a year. Problems include one oil was mostly hwy and that oil change it got worse fuel economy not better. All in town driving was very bad for this vehicle and is a new vehicle or was almost new when I got it. I didn't ask if you believe it or not as I stated an opinion that is factual in data I provided but maybe not factual for science. I am average Joe that lives the simple life where an opinion is an opinion and we can always argue opinion and not try to get all upset trying to convince you opinions don't matter only scientific facts matter. Only opinion I asked for was to dump or not and I dumped and shared results cause some asked me to.
 
Over 6 months on Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 and Zero changes of course at 75 my math could be off plus or minus two tenths of a mile a gallon. But not likely.
 
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My fuel mileage fluctuates by as much as 3 mpg from just the weather alone. It can vary that much between batches of fuel at the same gas station depending on ethanol content, oxygen content, and specific gravity. You would need dozens of rounds of data with each oil, with every other variable exactly the same (same ambient temperature and weather, same fuel formula batch to batch, same driving pattern, etc...) to get validated results.

At the same gas station, just one week apart, I saw the ethanol content go from 9% to 4%. That's a 1.5% swing in mpg right there. Variations like that are actually pretty common which is why the pump states "may contain UP TO 10% ethanol."
 
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Your evidence and methods hardly provide correlation, much less causation.
It's pseudo analysis. Everyone's response Is nothing personal, and if you dont like an oil that's great, no skin of anyone's back. But it seems the only person convinced is you. So perhaps you should restrain yourself from using Havoline products if it makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by tiger862
I really don't care. Everyone is trying there best to convince me that my 1 year data is wrong. Only variables changed was oil and as stated my opinion and yes down 1 mpg is 66.00 a year. Problems include one oil was mostly hwy and that oil change it got worse fuel economy not better. All in town driving was very bad for this vehicle and is a new vehicle or was almost new when I got it. I didn't ask if you believe it or not as I stated an opinion that is factual in data I provided but maybe not factual for science. I am average Joe that lives the simple life where an opinion is an opinion and we can always argue opinion and not try to get all upset trying to convince you opinions don't matter only scientific facts matter. Only opinion I asked for was to dump or not and I dumped and shared results cause some asked me to.
 
I have had the opposite happen once. I switched from valvoline hm synblend to shell rotella gas truck and my mpg went from 12 to 16 almost immediately after. Nothing else changed. If your car was running better before I would just switch oils back.
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
I have had the opposite happen once. I switched from valvoline hm synblend to shell rotella gas truck and my mpg went from 12 to 16 almost immediately after. Nothing else changed. If your car was running better before I would just switch oils back.

No oil can cause that, plain and simple. Despite being convinced that "nothing else changed", if you actually observed this MPG increase then yes it did. It was not due to the oil. No oil causes a 33% change in mileage, neither good nor bad.

Physics matters.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
I have had the opposite happen once. I switched from valvoline hm synblend to shell rotella gas truck and my mpg went from 12 to 16 almost immediately after. Nothing else changed. If your car was running better before I would just switch oils back.

No oil can cause that, plain and simple. Despite being convinced that "nothing else changed", if you actually observed this MPG increase then yes it did. It was not due to the oil. No oil causes a 33% change in mileage, neither good nor bad.

Physics matters.


Yeah, this... not even switching from a 5w50 would bet you THAT much. And no switch between oils of the same grade is going to get you 33%.

Otherwise you can BET SOPUS would be putting "33% more efficient" on the bottle.

I've replaced baaaaaad shape plugs and air filters that looked more like what comes out of my shark vacuum than a filter - and still only seen 1-2 mpg differences.

Pick the oil in the appropriate spec from whichever brand/bottle/color makes you FEEL protected. It won't matter.
 
Just stating what happened my dude. Can't argue and say something isn't possible if it's something that has happened. Nothing else changed. Not even the oil filter.
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
Just stating what happened my dude. Can't argue and say something isn't possible if it's something that has happened. Nothing else changed. Not even the oil filter.

Lol "my dude". I'm not your dude. Is BLND1 your dude too? He stated the same as I did, make sure you respond to him as well as me.

Nevertheless it wasn't the oil. Physics does matter regardless of whether you can understand it or not.
 
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