Any idea of which station.? It's my old stomping grounds
GM 2.8 Diesel Canyon MIL: p244c and p24a0
- Thread starter dogememe
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Well, after half an hour of waiting after we put in the power service emergency anti gel stuff I got annoyed and decided one last time to get it work and tried to remote start it. The poor thing cranked for 30+ seconds and the battery was sounding really, really dead, but it suddenly started up! So I guess it just was gelled. We immediately went to a fuel station and filled up with fresh diesel along with some peak anti gel/cetane booster/injector cleaner product. We've done several hundred miles since and no more problems.
Originally Posted by mattd
Really any common rail injection pump is susceptible to this failure due to the design. The fuel is its source of its lubrication. Poor quality or low supply pressure, poor lubrication which will result in pump failure.
The Denso HPCR is an improved design and less susceptible to catastrophic damage from water. I can't say what engineering features it has which makes it more reliable, but improving water separation in the filter housing also helps.
GM figured it out and moved on from Bosch,that is why they have the best engine/transmission currently available in a light duty truck. Ford is late to the party. Not sure what Cummins is using now but hopefully they have evolved too.
Really any common rail injection pump is susceptible to this failure due to the design. The fuel is its source of its lubrication. Poor quality or low supply pressure, poor lubrication which will result in pump failure.
The Denso HPCR is an improved design and less susceptible to catastrophic damage from water. I can't say what engineering features it has which makes it more reliable, but improving water separation in the filter housing also helps.
GM figured it out and moved on from Bosch,that is why they have the best engine/transmission currently available in a light duty truck. Ford is late to the party. Not sure what Cummins is using now but hopefully they have evolved too.
Does that thing have a thermostatically controlled heated fuel filter and does it recirculate hot fuel back to the tank? The tank on my Unimog gets pretty warm/hot after running for a while.
Originally Posted by m37charlie
Does that thing have a thermostatically controlled heated fuel filter and does it recirculate hot fuel back to the tank? The tank on my Unimog gets pretty warm/hot after running for a while.
No, I don't believe it's electrically heated or with a engine heat exchanger. It is recirculated though.
Does that thing have a thermostatically controlled heated fuel filter and does it recirculate hot fuel back to the tank? The tank on my Unimog gets pretty warm/hot after running for a while.
No, I don't believe it's electrically heated or with a engine heat exchanger. It is recirculated though.
At 80 mph and -14 F, the wind chill would have cooled the recirculating line to almost a true -14 F.
As a souvenir of your trip I'm posting a temperature of Fort St. John. The weather the day you were in John was -20 F. Have a look and see how often that happens.
Thanks for sharing your trip. Let us know when you get home safely. To occupy you two on the trip home I've posted this song for you. If you record it, I only want 10% of the royalties. Snag.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Thanks for sharing your trip. Let us know when you get home safely. To occupy you two on the trip home I've posted this song for you. If you record it, I only want 10% of the royalties. Snag.
Hahaha well I don't think we'll be recording it but it made for a good laugh.
Thanks for sharing your trip. Let us know when you get home safely. To occupy you two on the trip home I've posted this song for you. If you record it, I only want 10% of the royalties. Snag.
Hahaha well I don't think we'll be recording it but it made for a good laugh.
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by mattd
With all the problems with this truck on the road trip I'd be trading it in as soon as I got back.
I have a 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB 2.8 and I love it. Never had a problem in 30k miles.
The liability with this vehicle and all other modern diesels is the emissions system. I would not plan a trip like this without taking precautions on a stock vehicle.
-insulate DEF tank or add supplementary heating
-insulate downpipe to DPF
-proper off-road AT tires like Duratracs or Geolander
-fill and maintain tank concentration with fuel improver/anti-gel additive.
-install factory block heater
-fill sump with appropriate 0w30 or 0w40 diesel oil
All these above at the very minimum. It seems like this trip was poorly planned and they underestimated the effect of the extreme cold would have on the truck.
Not sure what one does with A/T tires in snow and ice, but when it comes to other things, that should be already incorporated into engineering of an vehicle (beside block heater).
Also, fuel filter should be heated from factory.
Originally Posted by mattd
With all the problems with this truck on the road trip I'd be trading it in as soon as I got back.
I have a 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB 2.8 and I love it. Never had a problem in 30k miles.
The liability with this vehicle and all other modern diesels is the emissions system. I would not plan a trip like this without taking precautions on a stock vehicle.
-insulate DEF tank or add supplementary heating
-insulate downpipe to DPF
-proper off-road AT tires like Duratracs or Geolander
-fill and maintain tank concentration with fuel improver/anti-gel additive.
-install factory block heater
-fill sump with appropriate 0w30 or 0w40 diesel oil
All these above at the very minimum. It seems like this trip was poorly planned and they underestimated the effect of the extreme cold would have on the truck.
Not sure what one does with A/T tires in snow and ice, but when it comes to other things, that should be already incorporated into engineering of an vehicle (beside block heater).
Also, fuel filter should be heated from factory.
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Originally Posted by dogememe
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Any news from our friends from Cali?
Just cranks and cranks and cranks. So it's -14 out and we've got a broken truck with no heater, and semis whizzing by on a potentially icy highway at 70+ mph. We still had GM roadside assistance in our phone, we called them up... their automated system sends us a link where we have to put in the vin and mileage... well, their website is broken. We fiddled with that for a while and gave up and just pressed the OnStar Emergency button. They are, of course, stupid... they asked us if we'd like to fill out a survey about our experience, and also tried to sell us the more expensive version of OnStar. Because that's what we're worried about right now!
" We know you are freezing to death, but in case you live, would you like to subscribe for more expensive service? Next time you might die in style."
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Any news from our friends from Cali?
Just cranks and cranks and cranks. So it's -14 out and we've got a broken truck with no heater, and semis whizzing by on a potentially icy highway at 70+ mph. We still had GM roadside assistance in our phone, we called them up... their automated system sends us a link where we have to put in the vin and mileage... well, their website is broken. We fiddled with that for a while and gave up and just pressed the OnStar Emergency button. They are, of course, stupid... they asked us if we'd like to fill out a survey about our experience, and also tried to sell us the more expensive version of OnStar. Because that's what we're worried about right now!
" We know you are freezing to death, but in case you live, would you like to subscribe for more expensive service? Next time you might die in style."
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
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Originally Posted by MNgopher
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
It s execution. Much of North Europe and Russia runs diesels all the time, and mostly those are below 2ltr displacement.
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
It s execution. Much of North Europe and Russia runs diesels all the time, and mostly those are below 2ltr displacement.
It's my understanding that those areas have less restrictive diesel emission requirements and that they typically have higher cetane pump fuel. That makes a significant difference in how well these engines run in cold weather.
https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02...ssions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/
In Europe, diesel cetane numbers were set at a minimum of 38 in 1994 and 40 in 2000. The current[when?] standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60.[2]
In Finland, premium diesel fuels sold by Filling station chains St1 (Diesel Plus), Shell (containing GTL) and ABC (Smart Diesel) have a minimum cetane number of 60 with the typical value being at 63.[3][4][5] Neste MY Renewable Diesel sold in Finland has a minimum cetane number of 70.[6]
In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range. Premium diesels may or may not have higher cetane, depending on the supplier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02...ssions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/
In Europe, diesel cetane numbers were set at a minimum of 38 in 1994 and 40 in 2000. The current[when?] standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60.[2]
In Finland, premium diesel fuels sold by Filling station chains St1 (Diesel Plus), Shell (containing GTL) and ABC (Smart Diesel) have a minimum cetane number of 60 with the typical value being at 63.[3][4][5] Neste MY Renewable Diesel sold in Finland has a minimum cetane number of 70.[6]
In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range. Premium diesels may or may not have higher cetane, depending on the supplier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
Originally Posted by T-Stick
It's my understanding that those areas have less restrictive diesel emission requirements and that they typically have higher cetane pump fuel. That makes a significant difference in how well these engines run in cold weather.
https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02...ssions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/
In Europe, diesel cetane numbers were set at a minimum of 38 in 1994 and 40 in 2000. The current[when?] standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60.[2]
In Finland, premium diesel fuels sold by Filling station chains St1 (Diesel Plus), Shell (containing GTL) and ABC (Smart Diesel) have a minimum cetane number of 60 with the typical value being at 63.[3][4][5] Neste MY Renewable Diesel sold in Finland has a minimum cetane number of 70.[6]
In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range. Premium diesels may or may not have higher cetane, depending on the supplier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
Sure, yes, generally European fuel is of higher quality, especially since 2000. However, take into consideration that is EU. Once you get out of EU and the Balkans, more toward the East, anything can happen.
However, I owned VW diesel some 25 years ago and in Bosnia where I m from, in the mountains temperature very often drops below -20, and I actually skied at -42c.
Grante, there were cars back than, mostly Italian that did not want cooperate when temperature dropped below -15. later they resolved those issues.
It's my understanding that those areas have less restrictive diesel emission requirements and that they typically have higher cetane pump fuel. That makes a significant difference in how well these engines run in cold weather.
https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02...ssions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/
In Europe, diesel cetane numbers were set at a minimum of 38 in 1994 and 40 in 2000. The current[when?] standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60.[2]
In Finland, premium diesel fuels sold by Filling station chains St1 (Diesel Plus), Shell (containing GTL) and ABC (Smart Diesel) have a minimum cetane number of 60 with the typical value being at 63.[3][4][5] Neste MY Renewable Diesel sold in Finland has a minimum cetane number of 70.[6]
In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range. Premium diesels may or may not have higher cetane, depending on the supplier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
Sure, yes, generally European fuel is of higher quality, especially since 2000. However, take into consideration that is EU. Once you get out of EU and the Balkans, more toward the East, anything can happen.
However, I owned VW diesel some 25 years ago and in Bosnia where I m from, in the mountains temperature very often drops below -20, and I actually skied at -42c.
Grante, there were cars back than, mostly Italian that did not want cooperate when temperature dropped below -15. later they resolved those issues.
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
Small on-road diesels are hard to get right - and even so are saddled down with emissions regulations. Renault and VW initially didn't want to use Bluetec(SCR), they wanted to use NOx adsorption cats and EGR to reduce NOx. The smaller Japanese diesels offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru also eschewed SCR instead sticking with EGR, VVT and DPF to reduce emissions.
Yanmar and Kubota makes an outstanding small diesel engine... but it's only for boats and off-road power.
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
Small on-road diesels are hard to get right - and even so are saddled down with emissions regulations. Renault and VW initially didn't want to use Bluetec(SCR), they wanted to use NOx adsorption cats and EGR to reduce NOx. The smaller Japanese diesels offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru also eschewed SCR instead sticking with EGR, VVT and DPF to reduce emissions.
Yanmar and Kubota makes an outstanding small diesel engine... but it's only for boats and off-road power.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
Small on-road diesels are hard to get right - and even so are saddled down with emissions regulations. Renault and VW initially didn't want to use Bluetec(SCR), they wanted to use NOx adsorption cats and EGR to reduce NOx. The smaller Japanese diesels offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru also eschewed SCR instead sticking with EGR, VVT and DPF to reduce emissions.
Yanmar and Kubota makes an outstanding small diesel engine... but it's only for boats and off-road power.
Europeans have more or less squared out diesels, but SCR in the beginning was big problem, like for everyone since technology was introduced in vehicles not originally made for it, which required a lot of plumbing etc. Japanese were generally late into diesel race when diesels were name of the game in Europe, and Toyota probably there had biggest issues with their D-4D engines, never mind SCR issues they introduced later like everyone else. Their 2.2ltr were absolute disaster which prompted them to start buying from BMW, and 3.0 D-4D is not some happiness too (I have Prado their without SCR, with DPF and it is of mediocre reliability, far behind my BMW's diesels I had). Mazda has interesting diesels there that generally performed OK. Honda and Mitsubishi are OK.
IMO, anything below 3.0ltr or smaller Europeans are ruling that in performance and reliability. They are longest in that game and some Japanese manufacturers had some really, really horrible engines (Isuzu sourced engines in Opel: 1.6ltr, 1.7ltr and to certain extent DTI engines).
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I read this thread and I am reminded of why diesels in much of anything besides 3/4 ton and up trucks have a bad reputation. And even then, we don't buy diesels in our fleet unless the unit tows heavy consistently...
The fact that a modern vehicle can't survive running in what are normal everyday winter temps for some of us just screams lousy cold weather testing - the suggested list of modifications to a new vehicle to get it to work is ridiculous.
Meantime, my gas powered engine runs like a top in below zero temps... go figure..
Small on-road diesels are hard to get right - and even so are saddled down with emissions regulations. Renault and VW initially didn't want to use Bluetec(SCR), they wanted to use NOx adsorption cats and EGR to reduce NOx. The smaller Japanese diesels offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru also eschewed SCR instead sticking with EGR, VVT and DPF to reduce emissions.
Yanmar and Kubota makes an outstanding small diesel engine... but it's only for boats and off-road power.
Europeans have more or less squared out diesels, but SCR in the beginning was big problem, like for everyone since technology was introduced in vehicles not originally made for it, which required a lot of plumbing etc. Japanese were generally late into diesel race when diesels were name of the game in Europe, and Toyota probably there had biggest issues with their D-4D engines, never mind SCR issues they introduced later like everyone else. Their 2.2ltr were absolute disaster which prompted them to start buying from BMW, and 3.0 D-4D is not some happiness too (I have Prado their without SCR, with DPF and it is of mediocre reliability, far behind my BMW's diesels I had). Mazda has interesting diesels there that generally performed OK. Honda and Mitsubishi are OK.
IMO, anything below 3.0ltr or smaller Europeans are ruling that in performance and reliability. They are longest in that game and some Japanese manufacturers had some really, really horrible engines (Isuzu sourced engines in Opel: 1.6ltr, 1.7ltr and to certain extent DTI engines).
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We run arctic diesel in that place that CNN likes to talk about
Toyota 4 bangers to PSD/Cummins 6/8's to large CAT V16's .
Toyota 4 bangers to PSD/Cummins 6/8's to large CAT V16's .
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