fully synthetic 10w30 recomendation plz

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lots of folks try t6 5w40, 5w30 and motorcraft 5w50. I personally have tried MC 5w30 and currently in there I have t6 5w40. I think next change I would like to try a 10w30. Is there a sn+ 10w30 out there?


Seems like you want a "thick 30" oil this isnt determined by the first number a 5w30, 10w30, or even 15w30. would all be relatively similar and the 10w30 could be the thinnest of the 3.

Arco posts without his meds frequently so if something looks wacked out I usually just ignore it, The other day he was quoting himself form another forum and calling it wisdom.

If you want a thick 30 you are better off mixing a couple quarts of 10w40 with the same additive package to your preferred 30wt oil..

an example would be using 2quarts 10w40 in place of 2 of your quarts (of 10w30 or whatever)
making sure its the same brand. ie not mixing shell and Mobil 1.

You are g-d. I bow to thee. forgive me my sins.
You know HTHS is the major variable in play here due to fast sharing VM used in ILSAC fluid for fuel economy reasons.

Also thank you for continuing the confusion using the not preferred term "wt" for "grade".

Oh, Continued ad hominem attacks from the feeble will not be tolerated.

Bye!

- Ken

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Looking for a fully synthetic 10w30. Was going to try QSUD but learned its on the thinner side similar to a 5w. Would like to stick with a solid 10w non high mileage available at walmart.

*QSUD 5W30 is a solid 11 cSt at 100 degrees C. so it is a good 30 weight oil on the higher side of "thick" for it's weight .

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
... After a couple weeks of slow as mud light throttle acceleration, you will want to go back to a 5W20
... Do you have some thing to support this astounding statement?
Do we have to split into extremist camps, one claiming there's no difference in drag with higher-than-specified viscosity, and the other camp exaggerating the difference? Just recognize reality, folks! That's that the difference will be real, but not huge.

I have gone to a 5w30 grade on three different vehicles that spec a 20 grade.

In each case the vehicle was very slow to respond, slow revving and just didn't drive " correct"

One was a Modular 4.6 Bullitt, One a FORD Ranger 2.3

And those didn't have hydraulic VVT cam phaser which are hot oil viscosity dependent for cam retard angle at a target rpm.

 

[SteveG4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Looking for a fully synthetic 10w30. Was going to try QSUD but learned its on the thinner side similar to a 5w. Would like to stick with a solid 10w non high mileage available at walmart.

Where did you learn it that QSUD 10W-30 is on the thinner side? This is incorrect. QSUD 10W-30 is on the thicker side. It uses a high-VI base oil and KV100 ~ 11 cSt with minimal VII (VI = 150). Full-shear viscosity (without any VII effect) should be at or close to 2.9 cP; so, it's almost as thick as a monograde SAE 30. HTHS viscosity is probably 3.3 cP or at least 3.2 cP.

There's some right thinking!

 

[SteveG4]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Looking for a fully synthetic 10w30. Was going to try QSUD but learned its on the thinner side similar to a 5w. Would like to stick with a solid 10w non high mileage available at walmart.

*QSUD 5W30 is a solid 11 cSt at 100 degrees C. so it is a good 30 weight oil on the higher side of "thick" for it's weight .

More correct thinking.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Piston_slap
Boy for an organization of lubrication egg-heads I never thought I'd see "thick or thin" applied to the same rating numbers!

A 5w-30 A3/B4 is not nearly the same at operating temperatures as a 5w-30 SN/GF-5.

I say hatt is right. There is being way too much read into what Briggs is saying here.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
See the B&S Oil Recommendations article and take note of the comments regarding 10w-30 oil. It appears that they are differentiating between synthetic 5w-30 and conventional 10w-30. They mention increased oil consumption when using 10w-30 at temperatures above 80F. This implies that they are concerned about higher NOAK volatility, which is what Gokhan was getting at with his graphs.

I've now looked at these oil recommendations by B&S. I agree that they are thinking about Noack.

A typical synthetic 5W-30 has Noack around 11%, which can vary between 9 - 13% depending on the brand. A synthetic 10W-30 usually has lower Noack than a synthetic 5W-30 of the same brand. A typical conventional 10W-30 has Noack around 13% but it can vary between 11 - 15% depending on the brand.

Would 2% higher Noack really affect the oil consumption a lot? No. The following study found out that in a typical healthy engine, oil volatility (as measured by Noack) contributes to around 1/3 of the total oil consumption. So, 1/3 * (13% - 11%) / 11% = 6%, which means that using a conventional 10W-30 with 13% Noack could increase the oil consumption by 6% over a synthetic oil with 11% Noack, which is not a practically significant increase.

The contribution of different oil-consumption sources (PDF link)
The contribution of different oil-consumption sources to total oil consumption in a spark-ignition engine
Ertan Yılmaz, Tian Tian, Victor W. Wong, and John B. Heywood
Sloan Automotive Laboratory, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

It looks like most B&S engines are four-stroke-cycle; so, they probably shouldn't be too unhappy with multigrade oils that contain VII as opposed to monograde oils that contain no VII.

 

[Garak]

I still say way too much is being read into this. We're looking at an engine that requires nothing more recent than SJ. All the specs listed, except SJ itself, are obsolete, and SJ is as good as obsolete and you certainly will not find a current SJ/GF-2 oil on the shelves with GF-2 being obsolete. If they were wanting to be really specific or careful with oil specifications, they might mention something a little more robust or current or useful, instead of having their bottom line spec as 30+ year old SF. Unfortunately, they were tone deaf enough to put an ad for their own oil right in viscosity chart, which immediately makes one wonder what would be wrong with any 40 grade multi or mono or a 20w-50.

Throw whatever oil of whatever 30 or 40 grade you have in the garage into the thing. If you're using it hard, long, and often or insist upon buying specific oil, run an SAE 30, an A3/B4 of whatever viscosity floats your boat, or any HDEO. As much as I'm no fan of monogrades, it really is hard to envision a more suitable oil for this usage in Florida than an SAE 30.

 

[08z06]

acd 10w30/30wt amsoil and be done with it.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by Garak
I still say way too much is being read into this. We're looking at an engine that requires nothing more recent than SJ. All the specs listed, except SJ itself, are obsolete, and SJ is as good as obsolete and you certainly will not find a current SJ/GF-2 oil on the shelves with GF-2 being obsolete. If they were wanting to be really specific or careful with oil specifications, they might mention something a little more robust or current or useful, instead of having their bottom line spec as 30+ year old SF. Unfortunately, they were tone deaf enough to put an ad for their own oil right in viscosity chart, which immediately makes one wonder what would be wrong with any 40 grade multi or mono or a 20w-50.

Throw whatever oil of whatever 30 or 40 grade you have in the garage into the thing. If you're using it hard, long, and often or insist upon buying specific oil, run an SAE 30, an A3/B4 of whatever viscosity floats your boat, or any HDEO. As much as I'm no fan of monogrades, it really is hard to envision a more suitable oil for this usage in Florida than an SAE 30.

I've run both 10w-30 and 10w-40 conventional in my Brigs and they run better than when I ran 30w in them. All are around 15 years old with no issues (yet!).

 

[Garak]

Exactly. They - neither the engineers or the engines - cannot be that picky.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Garak
I still say way too much is being read into this. We're looking at an engine that requires nothing more recent than SJ. ......... what would be wrong with any 40 grade multi or mono or a 20w-50.

Throw whatever oil of whatever 30 or 40 grade you have in the garage into the thing. If you're using it hard, long, and often or insist upon buying specific oil, run an SAE 30, an A3/B4 of whatever viscosity floats your boat, or any HDEO. As much as I'm no fan of monogrades, it really is hard to envision a more suitable oil for this usage in Florida than an SAE 30.


Agreed we are reading way too much into this.

With my old B&S mower I ran GTX 20W-50 because it was cheaper and easier to find than SAE30. The engine ran fine for many years and failed due to the body breaking with the engine still working well.

 

[Garak]

I use whatever stragglers I have in the garage - and this is coming from someone who despises mixing or changing brands and/or viscosity, and doesn't even like switching batch numbers. Every piece of OPE I've had over the last number of years has had its weak point as the fueling system. All the E0 and Stabil in the world or running them dry or whatever magical strategy doesn't work when the OEM spends eighty cents on the fuel system.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Garak
All the E0 and Stabil in the world or running them dry or whatever magical strategy doesn't work when the OEM spends eighty cents on the fuel system.


You speak the truth brother!!

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by SR5
M1 10W-30 High Mileage it has a HTHS of 3.5 cP when a regular GF-5 oil would be about 3.1 +/- 0.1 cP.

Also the M1 10W30 HM is one of the few oils that is rated both API SN-Plus and Euro ACEA A3/B3.

It's a great looking oil.



Great post here ^^^^

A real stout 10w30 made by M-1.

M1 HM 10W-30 is a good oil, apparently containing an extra dose of alkylated naphthalene (AN) for cleaning like other M1 HM viscosity grades, but HTHS viscosity alone doesn't show how really thick an oil is. M1 HM oils are heavy on the VII; so, the base oil is not necessarily as thick as some of the competitors such as PP 10W-30 and QSUD 10W-30. Wear is not only determined by HTHS viscosity but also the base-oil viscosity, especially in the valvertain and timing chain. If you are looking for a 10W-30 with the strongest base oil, M1 HM 10W-30 is not the top choice.

Also, somewhat arguably, a conventional 10W-30 may protect against wear better because its base oil, which is Group II, has a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient than a Group III (or GTL) synthetic base oil. So, if you are doing short OCIs, a conventional 10W-30 could be a better choice. In fact, a conventional 10W-30 HDEO may be the best choice in terms of the base-oil viscosity, HTHS viscosity, and pressure - viscosity coefficient.


One way to keep it simple is to focus on the overall package and how the oil performs in a series of standardised tests where an oil must deliver in multiple ways, like wear, deposits and shear stability.

M1 HM 10W-30 is one of the very few oils around that is both API SN-Plus and ACEA A3/B3. I'll take that real testing over a BBQ index made from spec sheets, and their possible typos, any day of the week.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by SR5
M1 10W-30 High Mileage it has a HTHS of 3.5 cP when a regular GF-5 oil would be about 3.1 +/- 0.1 cP.

Also the M1 10W30 HM is one of the few oils that is rated both API SN-Plus and Euro ACEA A3/B3.

It's a great looking oil.



Great post here ^^^^

A real stout 10w30 made by M-1.

M1 HM 10W-30 is a good oil, apparently containing an extra dose of alkylated naphthalene (AN) for cleaning like other M1 HM viscosity grades, but HTHS viscosity alone doesn't show how really thick an oil is. M1 HM oils are heavy on the VII; so, the base oil is not necessarily as thick as some of the competitors such as PP 10W-30 and QSUD 10W-30. Wear is not only determined by HTHS viscosity but also the base-oil viscosity, especially in the valvertain and timing chain. If you are looking for a 10W-30 with the strongest base oil, M1 HM 10W-30 is not the top choice.

Also, somewhat arguably, a conventional 10W-30 may protect against wear better because its base oil, which is Group II, has a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient than a Group III (or GTL) synthetic base oil. So, if you are doing short OCIs, a conventional 10W-30 could be a better choice. In fact, a conventional 10W-30 HDEO may be the best choice in terms of the base-oil viscosity, HTHS viscosity, and pressure - viscosity coefficient.


One way to keep it simple is to focus on the overall package and how the oil performs in a series of standardised tests where an oil must deliver in multiple ways, like wear, deposits and shear stability.

M1 HM 10W-30 is one of the very few oils around that is both API SN-Plus and ACEA A3/B3. I'll take that real testing over a BBQ index made from spec sheets, and their possible typos, any day of the week.



* SR5 : What about M1 10W30 HM EP - would it's base oil be thicker / better than regular M1 10W30 HM ?

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46

* SR5 : What about M1 10W30 HM EP - would it's base oil be thicker / better than regular M1 10W30 HM ?

Hi Mate,
Here is the list of M1 oils and their specs
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

I don't see any M1 10W30 HM EP. Only the thinner grades.

They do have M1 10W30 EP and it looks like a good oil to me. If we compare the two 30 grade EP (only) oils

M1 5W30 EP
KV100 = 10.6 cSt
HTHS = 3.0 cP
Density = 0.851
Spec's = SN-Plus, A5/B5, Dexos1-Gen2

M1 10W30 EP
KV100 = 10.2 cSt
HTHS = 3.1 cP
Density = 0.856
Spec's = SN-Plus and A5/B5

Both are excellent and both are SN-Plus with Euro A5/B5, however if you go by spec's then the 5W30 is also Dexos1 rated. Always a tricky point, as 10W30 isn't an allowed Dexos grade, so would the 10W30 pass the Dexos quality tests? Probably yes, but we don't really know.

Assuming you live in a mild climate where 10W-X offers you enough cold starting performance, we can also look at the viscosity figures.

5W30 is thicker (KV100 = 10.6) but has a lower HTHS (3.0).
10W30 has KV100= 10.2 for a HTHS of 3.1
I've always go for an oil that offers the most HTHS for the least KV100, so here 10W30 is the clear winner. I believe this indicates a low VII load.

Also higher base oil grades and thicker bases tend to be denser so a higher density oil is also good to me.

If I didn't need a Dexos oil or a cold climate oil, I would happily run M1 10W30 EP as it looks very good to me.

For comparison
M1 10W30 HM
KV100 = 12.1 cSt
HTHS = 3.5 cSt
Density = 0.861
Spec's = SN-Plus and A3/B3

All good oils, I like 10W-30 as a grade in my hot climate, just depends on thick you want to go

 

[larrymoencurly]

Valvoline used to make 10W-30 Syntec. It caused my Nissan Frontier to drip a lot more than 5W-30 conventional.