fully synthetic 10w30 recomendation plz

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Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
You want a "thick" 10W30? That means high HTHS not high KV100. After a couple weeks of slow as mud light throttle acceleration, you will want to go back to a 5W20 smile
Do you have some thing to support this astounding statement?
HTHS = 3.5
I'm running a 3.5 HTHS in a 5.0 right now. You're not telling the difference in a 360+ HP pickup truck by driving around.
 
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Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lots of folks try t6 5w40, 5w30 and motorcraft 5w50. I personally have tried MC 5w30 and currently in there I have t6 5w40. I think next change I would like to try a 10w30. Is there a sn+ 10w30 out there?
Seems like you want a "thick 30" oil this isnt determined by the first number a 5w30, 10w30, or even 15w30. would all be relatively similar and the 10w30 could be the thinnest of the 3. Arco posts without his meds frequently so if something looks wacked out I usually just ignore it, The other day he was quoting himself form another forum and calling it wisdom. If you want a thick 30 you are better off mixing a couple quarts of 10w40 with the same additive package to your preferred 30wt oil.. an example would be using 2quarts 10w40 in place of 2 of your quarts (of 10w30 or whatever) making sure its the same brand. ie not mixing shell and Mobil 1.
 
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I put 354K on my old 91 Ford Ranger 3.0. When I sold it the engine still ran great and never had the valve covers removed, and no more oil use when sold than when purchased. Oil used was M1 10-30 at 10K OCIs.
 

SR5

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M1 10W-30 High Mileage it has a HTHS of 3.5 cP when a regular GF-5 oil would be about 3.1 +/- 0.1 cP. Also the M1 10W30 HM is one of the few oils that is rated both API SN-Plus and Euro ACEA A3/B3. It's a great looking oil.
 
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Originally Posted by SR5
M1 10W-30 High Mileage it has a HTHS of 3.5 cP when a regular GF-5 oil would be about 3.1 +/- 0.1 cP. Also the M1 10W30 HM is one of the few oils that is rated both API SN-Plus and Euro ACEA A3/B3. It's a great looking oil.
Great post here ^^^^ A real stout 10w30 made by M-1.
 
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Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
You want a "thick" 10W30? That means high HTHS not high KV100. After a couple weeks of slow as mud light throttle acceleration, you will want to go back to a 5W20 smile
Do you have some thing to support this astounding statement?
I was thinking the same thing. FWIW I use Motorcraft semi-syn 5W-30 in my 2018 Mustang 5.0 and my 4.6 Modulars in my older Mustangs. Get it at Wally's for a little under 20 bucks per gallon.
 
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In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
 
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Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Looking for a fully synthetic 10w30. Was going to try QSUD but learned its on the thinner side similar to a 5w. Would like to stick with a solid 10w non high mileage available at walmart.
Where did you learn it that QSUD 10W-30 is on the thinner side? This is incorrect. QSUD 10W-30 is on the thicker side. It uses a high-VI base oil and KV100 ~ 11 cSt with minimal VII (VI = 150). Full-shear viscosity (without any VII effect) should be at or close to 2.9 cP; so, it's almost as thick as a monograde SAE 30. HTHS viscosity is probably 3.3 cP or at least 3.2 cP.
 
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Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
Maybe it's because many 5w30's have a better VI (ability to resist thinning at high temps) than 10w30's. For example Mobil 1 5w30 full syn has a VI of 172 and HTHS of 3.1 @150c, whereas Mobil 1 10w30 has a VI of 146 and HTHS of 3.0 @150c. Despite one being a 5w and the other a 10w, they both have nearly identical 40c and pour point values.
 
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Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by SR5
M1 10W-30 High Mileage it has a HTHS of 3.5 cP when a regular GF-5 oil would be about 3.1 +/- 0.1 cP. Also the M1 10W30 HM is one of the few oils that is rated both API SN-Plus and Euro ACEA A3/B3. It's a great looking oil.
Great post here ^^^^ A real stout 10w30 made by M-1.
M1 HM 10W-30 is a good oil, apparently containing an extra dose of alkylated naphthalene (AN) for cleaning like other M1 HM viscosity grades, but HTHS viscosity alone doesn't show how really thick an oil is. M1 HM oils are heavy on the VII; so, the base oil is not necessarily as thick as some of the competitors such as PP 10W-30 and QSUD 10W-30. Wear is not only determined by HTHS viscosity but also the base-oil viscosity, especially in the valvertain and timing chain. If you are looking for a 10W-30 with the strongest base oil, M1 HM 10W-30 is not the top choice. Also, somewhat arguably, a conventional 10W-30 may protect against wear better because its base oil, which is Group II, has a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient than a Group III (or GTL) synthetic base oil. So, if you are doing short OCIs, a conventional 10W-30 could be a better choice. In fact, a conventional 10W-30 HDEO may be the best choice in terms of the base-oil viscosity, HTHS viscosity, and pressure - viscosity coefficient. For example see Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30 CK-4/SN: Mobil Delvac brochure: wear comparison to Rotella and Delo (PDF file) Or simply run a 15W-40 HDEO in Florida if you want a thicker oil. I know it's a long reply to a short question but motor oil is complicated. wink
 
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
Maybe it's because many 5w30's have a better VI (ability to resist thinning at high temps) than 10w30's. For example Mobil 1 5w30 full syn has a VI of 172 and HTHS of 3.1 @150c, whereas Mobil 1 10w30 has a VI of 146 and HTHS of 3.0 @150c. Despite one being a 5w and the other a 10w, they both have nearly identical 40c and pour point values.
It's not that simple. It's a more complicated calculation. A high VI usually tells you that an oil has more VII, which is not a desirable thing in general. 5W-30 has higher VI than 10W-30 because it has more VII -- not because it uses a better base oil. As I have been saying in many occasions, KV and HTHS viscosity are not the only viscosities that matter. Base-oil viscosity at high temperatures also does -- this is the reason why Briggs mower recommends SAE 30 monograde. It's unlikely for a synthetic 5W-30 to outperform a conventional 10W-30 in terms of base-oil viscosity at high temperatures. Most 10W-30 oils will outperform most 5W-30 oils in terms of base-oil viscosity, with few exceptions. So, if you're looking for a multigrade somewhat similar to a monograde, go with a 15W-40 or 10W-30. You can learn more about this complicated subject here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...erature-full-shear-viscosity#Post5133403
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
Maybe it's because many 5w30's have a better VI (ability to resist thinning at high temps) than 10w30's. For example Mobil 1 5w30 full syn has a VI of 172 and HTHS of 3.1 @150c, whereas Mobil 1 10w30 has a VI of 146 and HTHS of 3.0 @150c. Despite one being a 5w and the other a 10w, they both have nearly identical 40c and pour point values.
It's not that simple. It's a more complicated calculation. A high VI usually tells you that an oil has more VII, which is not a desirable thing in general. 5W-30 has higher VI than 10W-30 because it has more VII -- not because it uses a better base oil. As I have been saying in many occasions, KV and HTHS viscosity are not the only viscosities that matter. Base-oil viscosity at high temperatures also does -- this is the reason why Briggs mower recommends SAE 30 monograde. It's unlikely for a synthetic 5W-30 to outperform a conventional 10W-30 in terms of base-oil viscosity at high temperatures. Most 10W-30 oils will outperform most 5W-30 oils in terms of base-oil viscosity, with few exceptions. So, if you're looking for a multigrade somewhat similar to a monograde, go with a 15W-40 or 10W-30. You can learn more about this complicated subject here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...erature-full-shear-viscosity#Post5133403
I get all that. The smaller the spread between the lower and upper numbers, generally the higher quality the base stock. But a 10w30 still uses some amount (albeit less than a 5w30) of viscosity modifiers right? So it's still prone, on some level, to viscosity changes under high load/temp. I was proffering a guess as to why his owners manual recommends a 5w30 and not a 10w30, even though the preferred oil happens to be a SAE30. My line of thinking (and I could be way off here) was that the engineers at Briggs believe that the higher VI of a 5w30 allows the engine to operate safely over a broader range of temps/loads than say a 10w30 with a lower VI. (Low(er) VI's are going to be better suited to conditions where the load doesn't vary [as much] right?). Maybe it was a trade off the Briggs engineers decided to make that the mowers operation wouldn't destroy all the modifiers used in a full syn 5w30 thus allowing for operation over a broader range than say a 10w30 with a lower VI would???
 
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The quality of the base oil depends mostly on the cold range (x in xW-y) and the spec to be met (SN, CK-4, A5/B5, VW 504.00, etc.), which puts a maximum limit on Noack. See the following charts. [Linked Image] [Linked Image] Yes, when the spread gets larger, the VII content tends to increase. You can see that in the rise in the viscosity index VI. I wouldn't read too much into the Briggs synthetic 5W-30 recommendation. They were probably thinking of conventional vs. synthetic 5W-30. A conventional 10W-30 should perform similarly or better and a synthetic 10W-30 probably better than a synthetic 5W-30. In any case none performs anywhere close to a monograde SAE 30 unless the VII content is minimal. A higher VI actually increases the engine wear. The reason is simple: HTHS viscosity at 150 °C is the set to be roughly the same for oils with different VI. Oil temperatures are usually in the range 100 - 120 °C. This means that an oil with a higher VI will actually run thinner at most operating conditions. However, you get better fuel economy with oils with a higher VI for the same reason -- the oil runs thinner for most operating conditions. This is the reason why the Japanese OEMs recommend ultra-high-VI oils -- they are concerned about fuel economy and not so much about engine wear.
 
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I don't know squat about oils but I know what my Nissan that called for 5-30 did when I tried Mobil 1hm 10-30. Burnt oil like never before. I bought 10 jugs of PP 10-30 non HM at meijer store for $6 a jug and 2000 miles in its used half of what it used on Mobil 1. No beef here with Mobil 1, just a personal experience. My car usually uses a half to 3/4 of a quart of any 5-30 flavor and at 2000 miles on PP I've dumped in a quart and it's still on full so I think I'm making headway albeit it just a little.
 
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Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
See the B&S Oil Recommendations article and take note of the comments regarding 10w-30 oil. It appears that they are differentiating between synthetic 5w-30 and conventional 10w-30. They mention increased oil consumption when using 10w-30 at temperatures above 80F. This implies that they are concerned about higher NOAK volatility, which is what Gokhan was getting at with his graphs.
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
The quality of the base oil depends mostly on the cold range (x in xW-y) and the spec to be met (SN, CK-4, A5/B5, VW 504.00, etc.), which puts a maximum limit on Noack. See the following charts. Yes, when the spread gets larger, the VII content tends to increase. You can see that in the rise in the viscosity index VI. I wouldn't read too much into the Briggs synthetic 5W-30 recommendation. They were probably thinking of conventional vs. synthetic 5W-30. A conventional 10W-30 should perform similarly or better and a synthetic 10W-30 probably better than a synthetic 5W-30. In any case none performs anywhere close to a monograde SAE 30 unless the VII content is minimal. A higher VI actually increases the engine wear. The reason is simple: HTHS viscosity at 150 °C is the set to be roughly the same for oils with different VI. Oil temperatures are usually in the range 100 - 120 °C. This means that an oil with a higher VI will actually run thinner at most operating conditions. However, you get better fuel economy with oils with a higher VI for the same reason -- the oil runs thinner for most operating conditions. This is the reason why the Japanese OEMs recommend ultra-high-VI oils -- they are concerned about fuel economy and not so much about engine wear.
Thank you. That was helpful in better understanding of VI. It was perplexing as to Briggs manual would go from a mono grade down to a 5w30, bypassing 10w30 all together. The highlighted red part, I did not know/consider that but it makes sense.👍 And yes, I agree with you... it's quite complicated stuff.
Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Originally Posted by Silverado12
In the owners manual of my Briggs powered riding mower, it interestingly says that if You don't use a 30 straight grade to use 5W-30 full syn. Don't know why it doesn't mention 10W.
See the B&S Oil Recommendations article and take note of the comments regarding 10w-30 oil. It appears that they are differentiating between synthetic 5w-30 and conventional 10w-30. They mention increased oil consumption when using 10w-30 at temperatures above 80F. This implies that they are concerned about higher NOAK volatility, which is what Gokhan was getting at with his graphs.
I wasn't privy to the B&S literature but yes, it appears that is what they were thinking as Gokhan pointed out. See what I get for wading into what I thought was an easily explainable question?...‚...‚ Oh well, at least I tried.
 
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Boy for an organization of lubrication egg-heads I never thought I'd see "thick or thin" applied to the same rating numbers! Does that also mean there is a fast 120mph and a slow 120mph? I still get a chuckle with the image of a self appointed Bitog engineer with either a slide rule or calculator dangling from his belt and the answer on the calculator always says "shell oil" when read upside down. Ha Ha. stooges
 
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