Fuel Tanker Driver Here

Messages
271
Location
Northeast Georgia
Thread starter
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by Sayjac
If this specific question/answer was covered before, I apologize in advance. Regarding "Speedway" gasoline which I see has been mentioned, just because it is owned by Marathon doesn't mean that it's gas is the same as Marathon TT rated gasoline? If that true, does it mean that is always the case or is it possible it could be, but the buyer has no way of knowing? TIA, appreciate your contribution here.
If there's no marquee advertising a brand, then the station is selling unbranded product. It likely would be Marathon unbranded...which is product supplied by Marathon, but doesn't have their TT additive package. It would likely have a generic additive.
Isn't the vast majority of fuel sold as a commodity and then effectively traded through pipeline/fuel depot operators? For instance, there is no Shell refinery in Southern California, and it wouldn't really make much sense to ship fuel from the Shell refinery in Northern California. It makes more sense to just pipe in fuel from Southern California refineries and through pipeline operations Shell will input fuel from the Martinez refinery that will eventually be distributed locally. I thought that the pipeline operators are essentially transporters and fuel brokers serving like a bank would "wire money". It makes more sense to just transport it as short a distance as possible.
Pretty much.
 
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5,274
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by Sayjac
If this specific question/answer was covered before, I apologize in advance. Regarding "Speedway" gasoline which I see has been mentioned, just because it is owned by Marathon doesn't mean that it's gas is the same as Marathon TT rated gasoline? If that true, does it mean that is always the case or is it possible it could be, but the buyer has no way of knowing? TIA, appreciate your contribution here.
If there's no marquee advertising a brand, then the station is selling unbranded product. It likely would be Marathon unbranded...which is product supplied by Marathon, but doesn't have their TT additive package. It would likely have a generic additive.
Isn't the vast majority of fuel sold as a commodity and then effectively traded through pipeline/fuel depot operators? For instance, there is no Shell refinery in Southern California, and it wouldn't really make much sense to ship fuel from the Shell refinery in Northern California. It makes more sense to just pipe in fuel from Southern California refineries and through pipeline operations Shell will input fuel from the Martinez refinery that will eventually be distributed locally. I thought that the pipeline operators are essentially transporters and fuel brokers serving like a bank would "wire money". It makes more sense to just transport it as short a distance as possible.
Pretty much.
Sure. But I do understand that often the "branding" requires the use of the "branded additive". Even then there used to be a lot of big brands that didn't really care about additives. Before the Valero brand went Top Tier, their marketing releases actually said that they just used the EPA minimum generic additives that were available at fuel depots.
 
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14,460
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The Old North State
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
…. Most of the time, I buy from Kroger. It's convenient and saves me money. Gotta love those fuel points.
Indeed. Harris Teeter which is owned by Kroger started the FP program about six months ago. Always shopped HT anyway, last month saved 60 cents a gallon as they now semi-regularly having a 2x FP online coupon for groceries. Also here BP gas is the HT partner in the program, so it has become my go to fuel. Besides generally lowering HT food prices, the FP program has made me appreciate the Kroger acquisition. Before the FP program QuikTrip(QT) was my go to, low price TT, station/stores nice too.
 
Messages
181
Location
FL, USA
Regarding up to 10% ethanol. What is the blend system typically set for? 10% precisely, 9.5%? other? And is the setting fairly universal for your area? IE: are there some stations/brands that get 10%, some 9.5%, etc. I guess the other question is are there differences in this level for Regular octane vs premium/high octane?
 
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Messages
271
Location
Northeast Georgia
Thread starter
Originally Posted by Davejam
Regarding up to 10% ethanol. What is the blend system typically set for? 10% precisely, 9.5%? other? And is the setting fairly universal for your area? IE: are there some stations/brands that get 10%, some 9.5%, etc. I guess the other question is are there differences in this level for Regular octane vs premium/high octane?
BP has theirs set up for up to 10.25% ethanol. I've loaded ExxonMobil and Shell noticed it slightly above 10%. Most everyone is within the acceptable window of variance. The main thing I notice is it is affected by the product temperature during the time of loading. When the weather is hot, there seems to be a slightly higher amount of ethanol vs when the weather is colder.
 
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1,057
Location
WV
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by user52165
For the OP: Any experience with Costco? For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
http://www.neiwpcc.org/tanks2013old...l%20Additives_Hurlocker_2013_Tuesday.pdf Pg 8
Thanks for this link. I know those people at the pump receive special training about that system. One told me that if the system malfunctions, they have to hand pump the additive which is very thick. Costco once said in an article in their magazine that they went with doing it themselves to make sure it was done correctly and not rely on the terminals. Not sure why they don't trust the terminals. One thing I've always wondered is why Sunoco is not TT gas. They provide all the NASCAR fuel but are not even TT.
 
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5,274
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by loneryder
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by user52165
For the OP: Any experience with Costco? For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
http://www.neiwpcc.org/tanks2013old...l%20Additives_Hurlocker_2013_Tuesday.pdf Pg 8
Thanks for this link. I know those people at the pump receive special training about that system. One told me that if the system malfunctions, they have to hand pump the additive which is very thick. Costco once said in an article in their magazine that they went with doing it themselves to make sure it was done correctly and not rely on the terminals. Not sure why they don't trust the terminals. One thing I've always wondered is why Sunoco is not TT gas. They provide all the NASCAR fuel but are not even TT.
They're Top Tier now. Racing is a completely different environment, with specialty fuels and frequent engine rebuilds. I guess the rules are different now, but I understand that 13 engines are allowed per racing season. But here's the word from Sunoco:
Quote
https://www.sunoco.com/quality-fuels Sunoco UltraTech™ is a Top Tier high detergent fuel blend, available across all fuel grades at every Sunoco station across the country. Sunoco UltraTech™ includes the same detergent level as the quality fuel Sunoco makes for NASCAR®, and will help your car run cleaner, longer, and more efficiently.
 
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1,859
Location
USA
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by postjeeprcr
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by walterjay
Are you privy to the mixing process. Which brand do you consider best.
Not really. There aren't any secrets to be told. It's mostly just a lot of "I heard it's done this way or that way", and then it's often misunderstood or explained incorrectly when information moves along from person to person. I'll be honest, I really don't have an opinion on what's best. However, the guys who run the terminal say that Motiva (Shell) has the best additive package...if there has to be a "best". In reality, anything labeled Top Tier has to meet a minimum standard which makes the quality across the spectrum pretty close. What do I run in my personal vehicle you may ask? Most of the time, I buy from Kroger. It's convenient and saves me money. Gotta love those fuel points.
Does the Kroger in your are have an option to add a fuel system cleaner at the pump? I have one near me that did (not sure if it still does as I have not been there in years) and I've always wondered how that was added. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it is really interesting and nice to get the facts.
My local Kroger does not offer an additional additive at the pump. However, I believe the Murphy/Walmart fuel pumps do. It's no different than adding something from a can...such as Lucas, Seafoam, etc. The product in the tanks already have detergent additives in it when delivered.
I understand it is not different than adding something from a can. I was thinking it could be like the Costco example where they have one tank just for the additive or one for each additive as they had a fuel system cleaner and an injector cleaner or the difference between the injector cleaner and fuel system cleaner you could buy would be just different levels of the standard additive with a little extra added above what the gasoline already had in it, to provide the extra cleaning.
 
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1,130
Location
California
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly. There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Not if there's no stations around that have E85 or E30. Where I live, I've yet to even see an E85 retailer.
So, how would these non-spec fuel loads be disposed if no local E30/E85 retailer needs product, or is even anywhere nearby?
 
Messages
271
Location
Northeast Georgia
Thread starter
Originally Posted by DGXR
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly. There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Not if there's no stations around that have E85 or E30. Where I live, I've yet to even see an E85 retailer.
So, how would these non-spec fuel loads be disposed if no local E30/E85 retailer needs product, or is even anywhere nearby?
The politics behind it is what makes it such a logistical nightmare. When I load product...at the time I start the process, the very first thing I do is enter the customer/destination. By law...it cannot be delivered to any other company or destination. When the loading is completed and I get the manifest, the customer is the owner of the product. So, our main customer is Circle K. I cannot deliver the product they own to a Quick Trip, Race Trac, etc. under any circumstance. I also cannot take it to a Circle K that my company isn't assigned or authorized to deliver to. Different territories have different carriers and cannot impose on one another. Our only option per policy is to take the out of spec product to a facility 250 miles away and offload it into a tank where they can safely dispose of it within EPA requirements.
 
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662
Location
PA
Thank you for all of your information. Curious if you have been hauling any pure gas? We have a regional convenience store chain, Wawa, which operates in the northeastern US and lately Florida, that is offering ethanol-free gas at their newer stations. The closest one to me in the Philadelphia area is Allentown; about 60 miles away, but their customer service told me that they will be including the pure gas option as new stations are built. They told me to look for the blue pump. Have you seen other retailers providing this option?
 
Messages
122
Location
Savannah
Originally Posted by PhillyJoe
Thank you for all of your information. Curious if you have been hauling any pure gas? We have a regional convenience store chain, Wawa, which operates in the northeastern US and lately Florida, that is offering ethanol-free gas at their newer stations. The closest one to me in the Philadelphia area is Allentown; about 60 miles away, but their customer service told me that they will be including the pure gas option as new stations are built. They told me to look for the blue pump. Have you seen other retailers providing this option?
This site may help you pure gas I think the closer you are to boating and marine activities the more ethanol free there is. We have no shortage of stations that sell it in coastal GA.
 
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3,561
Location
Central Iowa
I am in commercial trucking. I did fuel transport in the past. Nothing has really changed from what I did in the early 90's. GoldDot40 is spot on regarding how things go down. Lot's of people don't believe these same things he has brought up here when I have brought up the same information elsewhere in other forums. Many have preconceived ideas of who makes the fuel, how it is distributed to terminals, what retail outlets are selling, and all the little nuances. As has been stated, it is not complicated. Only those who are outside the bubble seem to make it complicated Likewise, I have no dog in the hunt when it comes to brand.
 
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857
Location
Maryland
Originally Posted by wensteph
Originally Posted by PhillyJoe
Thank you for all of your information. Curious if you have been hauling any pure gas? We have a regional convenience store chain, Wawa, which operates in the northeastern US and lately Florida, that is offering ethanol-free gas at their newer stations. The closest one to me in the Philadelphia area is Allentown; about 60 miles away, but their customer service told me that they will be including the pure gas option as new stations are built. They told me to look for the blue pump. Have you seen other retailers providing this option?
This site may help you pure gas I think the closer you are to boating and marine activities the more ethanol free there is. We have no shortage of stations that sell it in coastal GA.
Yep... Nobody in their right mind uses ethanol in watercraft. When you're thirsty for pure gasoline, take a ride over to your local marina. Ray
 
Messages
857
Location
Maryland
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
I am in commercial trucking. I did fuel transport in the past. Nothing has really changed from what I did in the early 90's. GoldDot40 is spot on regarding how things go down. Lot's of people don't believe these same things he has brought up here when I have brought up the same information elsewhere in other forums. Many have preconceived ideas of who makes the fuel, how it is distributed to terminals, what retail outlets are selling, and all the little nuances. As has been stated, it is not complicated. Only those who are outside the bubble seem to make it complicated Likewise, I have no dog in the hunt when it comes to brand.
Much thanks for the confirmation... I have one more question: Are the connectors on the hoses different sizes to prevent someone from accidentally putting the wrong fuel type in an underground tank? I'm thinking it would be a really bad day if someone put 1000 gallons of 87 in someone's 93 tank... -Ouch! Ray
 
Messages
271
Location
Northeast Georgia
Thread starter
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
I am in commercial trucking. I did fuel transport in the past. Nothing has really changed from what I did in the early 90's. GoldDot40 is spot on regarding how things go down. Lot's of people don't believe these same things he has brought up here when I have brought up the same information elsewhere in other forums. Many have preconceived ideas of who makes the fuel, how it is distributed to terminals, what retail outlets are selling, and all the little nuances. As has been stated, it is not complicated. Only those who are outside the bubble seem to make it complicated Likewise, I have no dog in the hunt when it comes to brand.
Much thanks for the confirmation... I have one more question: Are the connectors on the hoses different sizes to prevent someone from accidentally putting the wrong fuel type in an underground tank? I'm thinking it would be a really bad day if someone put 1000 gallons of 87 in someone's 93 tank... -Ouch! Ray
No. We do have policies in place to prevent it. The main one being DO NOT WORK DISTRACTED. That is the #1 reason for cross drop contamination. Where I work, dropping diesel on gas or vise versa is automatic termination...regardless of how long you've been employed here. Dropping 87 in a 93 tank. You have to prevent the product to be sold. Basically you get the store clerk to shut down the premium pumps. The 93 tank has to get pumped and refilled with the correct product. Dropping 93 in an 87 tank isn't quite as severe...while there's no danger in damaging a vehicle, our company eats the price difference. The driver still gets disciplinary action. The 93 just gives an overall boost to the 87.
 
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Deo

Messages
14
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
Thanks for all the info, GoldDot40! I'm curious, how many gallons of additives would there be (assuming regular-grade Top Tier) in a 1,000 gallon load of fuel? You mentioned there would be 100 gallons of ethanol in there - I'm just curious if you're able to see how many gallons of additives are put in. Also, which fuel brand puts the highest percentage of additives into their regular grade?
 
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2,099
Location
Ottumwa, Iowa
Originally Posted by Deo
Thanks for all the info, GoldDot40! I'm curious, how many gallons of additives would there be (assuming regular-grade Top Tier) in a 1,000 gallon load of fuel? You mentioned there would be 100 gallons of ethanol in there - I'm just curious if you're able to see how many gallons of additives are put in. Also, which fuel brand puts the highest percentage of additives into their regular grade?
Not even a gallon. I think our injectors do about 50cc a shot every 15 to 20 seconds either into 300 or 600 Gpm. I can't remember the exact flow rates per arm. The injection amount varies by the recipe.
 
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Messages
271
Location
Northeast Georgia
Thread starter
Originally Posted by Deo
Thanks for all the info, GoldDot40! I'm curious, how many gallons of additives would there be (assuming regular-grade Top Tier) in a 1,000 gallon load of fuel? You mentioned there would be 100 gallons of ethanol in there - I'm just curious if you're able to see how many gallons of additives are put in. Also, which fuel brand puts the highest percentage of additives into their regular grade?
It's 0.001% or 100ppm in most cases. So for 1000 gallons of E10 about 1 gallon is the additive package.
 
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6,696
Location
California
Now, vapor recovery systems at a gas station. How do y'all deal with those? Granted, most states aren't as strict as California.
 
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