Fram XG7317 20k miles cut open

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One can not determine the amount a filter is loaded by visual inspection of the media. Hence a "preventative maintenance program", not a "reactionary maintenance program".

I'll replace my filters with my oil.
 
Originally Posted by 69Torino
One can not determine the amount a filter is loaded by visual inspection of the media. Hence a "preventative maintenance program", not a "reactionary maintenance program".

I'll replace my filters with my oil.



I agree sir
Filters are to cheap not to change out at every oil change
Whether it's a $10 dollar Fram XG or a Wally ST
 
Originally Posted by 69Torino
One can not determine the amount a filter is loaded by visual inspection of the media. Hence a "preventative maintenance program", not a "reactionary maintenance program".

I'll replace my filters with my oil.


Uoas can and do show some particulate contamination though. I agree with your assessment on visual inspection
 
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I like to run a nice thick dino once the low temps are above 32F but when late fall rolls in it's a 0/40 and a new XG usually 12-18k by then.
 
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Old stuff 1-1 makes sense - new super clean running stuff - its just a waste of time and money.


Honda recommending 2 OCI's Is about knowing what an engines contamination output is by measuring it and selecting a filter able to hold that - plus a buffer for the duration computed by the OLM (up to 20K)


Visual inspections, preventative guesswork, tradition, good feeling have no place in this recommendation - its about the math.





UD
 
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Originally Posted by UncleDave
Old stuff 1-1 makes sense - new super clean running stuff - its just a waste of time and money.
Honda recommending 2 OCI's Is about knowing what an engines contamination output is by measuring it and selecting a filter able to hold that - plus a buffer for the duration computed by the OLM (up to 20K)
Visual inspections, preventative guesswork, tradition, good feeling have no place in this recommendation - its about the math.
UD

Who are you again? What math did you do about this? What on earth? What data do you have?
 
Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Old stuff 1-1 makes sense - new super clean running stuff - its just a waste of time and money.
Honda recommending 2 OCI's Is about knowing what an engines contamination output is by measuring it and selecting a filter able to hold that - plus a buffer for the duration computed by the OLM (up to 20K)
Visual inspections, preventative guesswork, tradition, good feeling have no place in this recommendation - its about the math.
UD

Who are you again? What math did you do about this? What on earth? What data do you have?



Im a long time poster with no reputation for mendacity.

I didnt say I did the math - Honda did the math - their oil algorithm (that drives the FCI) is posted on here and the ridgeline forum.

Others have weighed in repatedly about contamination output and filter holding capability resulting in rating of up to 20K mile before replacing the filter - do you know more than they do? They dont recommend you throw it away.

Fram and others did the math and talk about it here.



Why would I trust you over Hondas recommendation- who are you ?

UD
 
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Just for me, personally, knowing that filtration efficiency drops as the filter loads up is enough to make me want one 10k mile OCI per filter. I know the efficiency will be dropping on that 2nd OCI, and it would always be in the back of my mind. Sometimes peace of mind is worth that $9 every 12-14 months. If oil filters were $50+ each, I could see the point. They are dirt cheap though, even the "expensive" ones.
 
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Just for me, personally, knowing that filtration efficiency drops as the filter loads up is enough to make me want one 10k mile OCI per filter. I know the efficiency will be dropping on that 2nd OCI, and it would always be in the back of my mind. Sometimes peace of mind is worth that $9 every 12-14 months. If oil filters were $50+ each, I could see the point. They are dirt cheap though, even the "expensive" ones.
If one really looks at the now very oft posted M&H study efficiency graph, it's only very near the end when the filter is near or at it's holding capacity that any "significant" lowering of efficiency takes place. In a well maintained vehicle, you're not going to approach that area. And especially the group of people reading and posting here. For topic Ultra, even moreso with it's extended interval holding capacity. As noted here before, if you're getting near that area, you're engine has far greater issues than the fci and/or running the filter twice.

For me, like filter "flow" in pc use, filter efficiency drop off consideration, much ado about nothing.
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
If one really looks at the now very oft posted M&H study efficiency graph, it's only very near the end when the filter is near or at it's holding capacity that any "significant" lowering of efficiency takes place. In a well maintained vehicle, you're not going to approach that area. ...
Very good point, too often overlooked.
 
I'm impressed by the quality look of the Fram oil filter, metal end caps, silicon anti drain back valve. You are brave though going 20k miles. Unless you did a used oil analysis
along the way, how would you know if there was a problem with the filter? The cost of the UOA would terribly upset the cost advantage. I would hate to wait 20k miles
to find out that the filter had failed. Having said that, I used an Amsoil eao20 oil filter for three oil changes, probably will never do that again.

I have always thought a filter's efficiency go's up as it accumulates debris.
 
Originally Posted by harry j


I have always thought a filter's efficiency go's up as it accumulates debris.


Air filter? Yes. Oil filter? No.
 
Originally Posted by harry j
You are brave though going 20k miles.


I guess the tens of millions of Honda cars on the road that specify 20k mile filter changes with a $4 Honda filter are "brave". Or not. Honda tested this and specifically recommends people driving 20k miles on its cheap oil filters with syn blend or even Dino oil....
 
I don't have a Honda manual, what is the complete advice on filter changes for time, mileage, and type of use? Many cars over the years have advised using the filter a second time, not just Honda. Time and service duty are often ignored.

I guess it goes by the OLM, forgot about that. Unless the manual has more info.
 
Originally Posted by bubbatime
Originally Posted by harry j
You are brave though going 20k miles.


I guess the tens of millions of Honda cars on the road that specify 20k mile filter changes with a $4 Honda filter are "brave". Or not. Honda tested this and specifically recommends people driving 20k miles on its cheap oil filters with syn blend or even Dino oil....


Or is Honda just trying to cut some cost on their free oil change program? Remember, they are in the business of selling cars. Not keeping them running. Once that 100k mile warranty is up, they're far more interested in selling you another car than keeping your current one running. This isn't to say they don't care about their cars lasting from a quality standpoint, but you get my point.
 
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This could be like Mobil 1 AP, good for 20,000 miles but will the engine let it?

A 20k filter run on a clean running engine might be doable. On a sludged up motor, doubtful.


This is why the manufacturers always include the clause of following your auto manufacturers maintenance schedule first.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


Or is Honda just trying to cut some cost on their free oil change program?


Honda's recommendation to change the oil filter at every other oil change significantly pre-dates any free oil changes they may include on some vehicles.
 
Originally Posted by bulwnkl
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


Or is Honda just trying to cut some cost on their free oil change program?


Honda's recommendation to change the oil filter at every other oil change significantly pre-dates any free oil changes they may include on some vehicles.


Point taken.
 
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