fram filters

[fisher83]

I have heard pretty frequently that the orange can Fram filters aren't very good filters or at the very least that there are better filters for the same money. I really don't care for the orange can ones myself. My question is this... Does anyone have experience with the Fram Extended Guard filters that say they are good for 10,000 miles? They appear to be pretty well constructed and I was thinking of trying them out.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Extended Guard are well regarded on this board. They have metal endcaps and silicone ADBV.

 

[440Magnum]

Extended Guard is a very good filter. Nothing in common with the base orange can junker.

 

[chubbs1]

I have cut them open and they are very well constructed. Easily do 10k. The steel mesh backing keeps the pleats from collapsing. I cut a P1 open the other day with about 3.4k on it and I was upset at the way the pleats had warped. I am sure the filter was functional, I just don't know how much longer. That is where the mesh backing can come in handy. The FRAM X-Tended Guard is a top tier filter.

 

[Quest]

frame orange may be perceived as "orange can of death", but up north in the country of lumberjacks and igloos, fram orange is the number 1 aftermarket oil filters used by most shops (indy, quick 5min oil change stops, etc.) we haven't have any complaints about them blowing up engines at all.

Yes, it is overpriced (in the states) but up north here where everything is priced higher than the states: orange can isn't all that much expensive, when compared to imported "WIX" or many other aftermarket oil filters.

Don't let that 0.01% armchair scientist on the internet gets in your mind. Use whatever is best for you (price/performance-wise).

Q.

 

[rjacket]

Just go OEM. Usually amongst the cheapest and quality is almost always as good as you need if not the best.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Quest
frame orange may be perceived as "orange can of death", but up north in the country of lumberjacks and igloos, fram orange is the number 1 aftermarket oil filters used by most shops (indy, quick 5min oil change stops, etc.) we haven't have any complaints about them blowing up engines at all.

Yes, it is overpriced (in the states) but up north here where everything is priced higher than the states: orange can isn't all that much expensive, when compared to imported "WIX" or many other aftermarket oil filters.

Don't let that 0.01% armchair scientist on the internet gets in your mind. Use whatever is best for you (price/performance-wise).

Q.


Around here the orange can is about the cheapest.

 

[rjacket]

It's not worth taking a chance to save $5 a year on oil filters for a car that is costing you thousands to run every year.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Fram are so bad thats why Acura, Honda and Subaru all use them as OEM branded service replacement parts

That said, I like non-e-core Delco(champion) for a budget filter. Champion used to be called Lee Maxifilter back in the day, IIRC. WIx are good in the larger form factors - them small formfactor cans leave no room for the ginormous Wix base end bypass assy.

 

[rjacket]

Sure but what did they spec? More like extended guard or basic?

And if basic, who knows how that decision was made? Often factory and service filters are not the same.

I recall seeing a youtube video where the presenter opens up a Honda filter that looks terrible and says "****, it's a Fram".

You are right, there are basic Fram filters everywhere. However, I haven't seen anyone come up with a knowledgeable defence of them on these forums. The only answer is that they are used everywhere. That does not mean that they are not bad for the longer term health of the engine.

As an analogy, everyone in the US drinks soda and eats fast food. McDonalds is as common in Walmart as Fram oil filters and you can see what is happening with the health of people .......

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
...
You are right, there are basic Fram filters everywhere. However, I haven't seen anyone come up with a knowledgeable defence of them on these forums. ...
...
You havent read back enough then. FRAM has been defended here by spurious attacks too many times to count. Make a specific observant/engineering claim WHY they are bad, and I might tell you why they are NOT. Just be aware that Spin-On canisters are going the way of the DO-Do due to environmental concerns. The direction is toward No metal instead all paper and polymer that can go right in the coal hopper at the power plant. No metal allowed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

We can only report our own experience with our fleet.

We used OCOD's for almost a decade in everything, and I owned a lot more vehicles at that time.

Probably used a hundred or more in everything. Boats, cars, motorcycles, you name it. Never had a single issue.

I'm not telling anyone that they are somehow great, just that they never hurt us in any noticeable way.

 

[rjacket]

The evidence for me is the way that Toyota filters are designed compared to the basic frams.

Everything Toyota does is the standard for reliability. Oil filter design is probably one of the easier things to make reliable and my sense is that the Toyota design and quality is as good as it gets.

Do Toyota filters perform better than Fram. Yes. More media, better quality media means better filtration.

Are Toyota filters more reliable than Fram. Yes. Better construction, better engineering, means more reliable. Better engineered bypass valve and anti drainback valve means more reliable operation.

Will it make a difference? Yes. The oil stays cleaner.

How will that difference manifest itself? Unknown

Conclusion. Why take the chance? I have RO water even though everything is within government limits. I use synthetic oil even though blend is what the dealer puts in. I eat organic even though we have been told for years that everything is within acceptable limits.

Do any cars come from the factory with the basic Fram filter?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I'm not telling anyone that they are somehow great, just that they never hurt us in any noticeable way.


"Noticeable" is the key word.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: rjacket

Do Toyota filters perform better than Fram. Yes. More media, better quality media means better filtration.


Not according to a recent filtering efficiency test done by Amsoil using the standard ISO 4548-12 test method. They reported a sorry efficiency of 51% @ 20 microns using the Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: Quest
frame orange may be perceived as "orange can of death", but up north in the country of lumberjacks and igloos, fram orange is the number 1 aftermarket oil filters used by most shops (indy, quick 5min oil change stops, etc.) we haven't have any complaints about them blowing up engines at all.

Yes, it is overpriced (in the states) but up north here where everything is priced higher than the states: orange can isn't all that much expensive, when compared to imported "WIX" or many other aftermarket oil filters.

Don't let that 0.01% armchair scientist on the internet gets in your mind. Use whatever is best for you (price/performance-wise).

Q.


Around here the orange can is about the cheapest.


Ford is cheaper.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: rjacket

Are Toyota filters more reliable than Fram. Yes. Better construction, better engineering, means more reliable. Better engineered bypass valve and anti drainback valve means more reliable operation.
?
Toyota filters are Denso Thailand for a service part. Ive never had more oiling issue than on that car with their service part Yzzf2 filter. The OE Nippon Denso 90915-10004 has foam media and worked well with the VVT engines. Toyota wont sell you the filter # that came on the engine from japan. Ive tried.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: rjacket

Do Toyota filters perform better than Fram. Yes. More media, better quality media means better filtration.


Not according to a recent filtering efficiency test done by Amsoil using the standard ISO 4548-12 test method. They reported a sorry efficiency of 51% @ 20 microns using the Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter.


Thanks for that info. A while ago I asked a question if anyone knew what was the best filter media (for air and cabin filters) but got no real response.

It appears that Amsoil nanofibre achieves more flow and more filtering and longer life.

Very interesting for all types of filter applications both in the car and home. I'm looking into it more.

 

[rjacket]

As a follow up, here is the data you were refering to.

Amsoil Oil Filter Comparison

I saw a thread on these forums that also compared to Toyota filters which concluded that Amsoil filters are the holy grail.

But, they, and you, didn't mention that Amsoil's own tests don't show such an improvement over other filters (at 20 microns at least).

I myself use the Ford / Motorcraft FL820S. It's been around for years and is a Purolator Classic / Pure One clone. It got 93.7% efficiency vs 98.7% for Amsoil. Not bad for a $4 conventional media filter.

The two filters that did poorly were the Honda and Toyota. Note it seems that the Honda is a Fram.

It seems the Toyota filter is poor if it comes from Thailand. I heard about this issue also on the Lexus forums and it seems that this is what Amsoil decided to test. Toyota / Lexus quality started to go down from the mid 2000 decade and it seems that this applies to some of the oil filters also. Prior to that, the reviews I saw on Toyota oil filters was very positive and that was what I was relating to.

But in a roundabout way, you have helped to show that Fram is poor compared to the regular suspects (AC Delco is the Chevy filter and Chrysler is Mopar, potentially WIX).

The Honda is a FRAM.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
As a follow up, here is the data you were refering to.

Amsoil Oil Filter Comparison

I saw a thread on these forums that also compared to Toyota filters which concluded that Amsoil filters are the holy grail.

But, they, and you, didn't mention that Amsoil's own tests don't show such an improvement over other filters (at 20 microns at least).


Yes, that's the data I was referring to. And yes, it's true based on that data that there are many filters that are just as effective (or more) than the Amsoil. Any time a filter is in the 97% @ 20 micron efficiency or better per the ISO 4548-12 test method, then I look at things like construction and ADBV material, etc to chose the best filter in my mind.