Final Sludge Cleanup, HDEO - Diesel ??

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62
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Old Saybrook, CT
Ok after my panicked sludge cleaning thread (thanks for all the great guidance to everyone) here's where I am and want recommendations on how to continue to finish my engine clean up. Currently running 1QT MMO in 6 QT oil full syn change. (1:5) I am in 250 miles now. How long should I go (500? 1000? total miles?) Filter looks dark amber but not black at this time. As a reminder I am trying to do a gentle but thorough cleaning after finding mud like sludge and an oil light (which went out when the sensor was changed- thinkgin it got plugged with sludge). Trying not to do a flush as it seems the engine is not that bad based on hwo quickly it cleaned up so far. I've read through plenty of threads on how to do a cleanse to clean up an engine and I want one last process to finalize before I go to standard OCI with a high quality synthetic. I have settled on the Diesel OCI and want recommendations: What grade to use? Its cold here 15-20 degrees starting in the morning. Car calls for 0W-30. Diesel is not available at that visc. Use single grade? Use Conventional or Synthetic ? Any special approval (SN1 AP CEA ?? required?) I've used Rotella in my Turbo Saabs before, seemed fine, so it's a known thing to me but Delvac is also recommended. If Rotella which to use (T1, T5. T6, TX?) How many miles on "short changes" are recommended? I can pull the filter at any mileage interval. it's a cartridge type and easy to get to so it's easy to pull. How many changes before I swap to Mobil 1 ESP ( my go to) Thanks again for any opinions
 

JC1

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4,772
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Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Originally Posted by jssaab
Currently running 1QT MMO in 6 QT oil full syn change. (1:5) I am in 250 miles now. How long should I go (500? 1000? total miles?) Filter looks dark amber but not black at this time.
How many oil changes did you do before the current OC? Why don't you remove the current oil filter at1000 miles and cut it open to see what's in the filter. I think I would leave this in until end of March until the weather warms up. Then if you want to go to a HDEO oil change, then go for it.
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
I like the idea to wait till it's warmer. I am on the 3rd change (all full syn ESP) Did one change after the sludge for 300 Miles, Did another for 500. Now on this one for 500 so far (100mi 2 OZ MMO, 100 more +6 more oz MMO, 100 + 8 more oz MMO and 200 miles with full QT MMO.) I can wait for 250-500 more or tilll 3000, not sure that's a good idea to keep 1qt MMO in there for the remaining time ( didn't want to go more than 3000 for sure.
 
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10,004
Location
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by jssaab
What grade to use? Its cold here 15-20 degrees starting in the morning. Car calls for 0W-30. Diesel is not available at that visc. Use single grade?
No Big Deal... we often ran nothing less than 10W-30 in most of our family vehicles back in the 80's & 90's, and it was a LOT LOT LOT colder in North Dakota than where you are! I would have ZERO fear of a 10W-30 in my sump at 15*F-20*F
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
The car as VVT and I have heard that higher viscosity and cold temps and mess with the timing due to the super fine screens in the VVT soleniods
 
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4,112
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WA
Originally Posted by jssaab
I am on the 3rd change (all full syn ESP) Did one change after the sludge for 300 Miles, Did another for 500. Now on this one for 500 so far (100mi 2 OZ MMO, 100 more +6 more oz MMO, 100 + 8 more oz MMO and 200 miles with full QT MMO.) I can wait for 250-500 more or tilll 3000, not sure that's a good idea to keep 1qt MMO in there for the remaining time ( didn't want to go more than 3000 for sure.
I've always drained it between 500 and 1000 miles but the mfgs website says you can leave it in for a full oci when used as directed. Just keep checking your cartridge filter for build up. You're in luck in that regards, if you had a bottom mount you don't have that luxury. Fwiw going to a Xw40 when it spec's a Xw30 isn't going to grenade your VVT. But in any event you should have a look at the following full synthetic mixed fleet HDEO's...or you could consider Valvoline Premium Blue 10w30 or 5w40. This is not to be confused with the insanely expensive VPB "Restore". These are Valvoline's more affordable HDEO's. All of these are great HDEO options IMO. Chevron Delo XSP 5w30 Chevron Delo 400 SP 0w30 VPB 5w40 HDEO VPB 10w30 HDEO
 
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jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
thank you @mad_hatter.. I will look into those oils. The MMO website sucks really badly. It say you can add a QT at a change AND you should add a QT then change in 300 miles. Also, could find NO video of running a Qt of MMO for an entire change and what the oil or filter looked like after or oil OR showed any USE for a cleanup after finding sludge.... So far 250 miles in on 1 QT oil on the dipstick looks only darker, not black. Filter looks clear... I'll check again at 250 more
 
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4,112
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WA
Originally Posted by jssaab
thank you @mad_hatter.. I will look into those oils. The MMO website sucks really badly. It say you can add a QT at a change AND you should add a QT then change in 300 miles. - true, replace up to (no more than) 25% of capacity at the beginning and/or at least 300 miles before the oil change. MMO is a "light" cleaner; it contains majority napthenic oil (up to 60% IIRC), Stoddard solvent (something like 30%) and the rest is TCP and both para/ortho dichlorobenzene which dissolve carbon. MMO needs a little bit of time to do it's trick. Also, could find NO video of running a Qt of MMO for an entire change and what the oil or filter looked like after or oil OR showed any USE for a cleanup after finding sludge.... - not sure what you need a video of/for, i assure you it's working... albeit slowly. It is not a harsh/quick acting metal stripper like a Berryman's Chem-Dip, nor do you want it to be as you risk doing damage to oil seals if it were. So far 250 miles in on 1 QT oil on the dipstick looks only darker, not black. Filter looks clear... - that's not necessarily bad. You don't want huge chunks of sludge breaking away plugging up the filter but it's good that it's there just in case. Ideally MMO would dissolve it into a solution so that the oils chemistry can hold it in suspension until you drain it out. Some of course will get entrapped by the filter as it passes. For your own edification, find something that is gunked up and soak it in a jar of MMO... you'll see how it slowly dissolves. For example, I've done this before using a PCV valve. I'll check again at 250 more
 
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jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Ok and thanks @mad_hatter That's exactly what I wan to dissolve all the sludge SLOWLY. If I can keep the MMO in there a full OCI I will wait till 5k miles. That will be 4K on a full QT ( another 1K on slowly increasing concentrations at the start) I want to dissolve any sludge that may be in the pickup screen as well. Hoping keeping the MMO in there over the full OCI will do the trick and not need another bath in it. I will see what the oil looks like after the 5k total and decide then. then I probably use the Valvoline Premium Blue 8600 ES Synthetic Blend Heavy Duty SAE 10W-30 Diesel Engine Oil due to availability and price. I'll use that for one or 2 OCI then go back to my standard.
 
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4,112
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WA
Originally Posted by jssaab
If I can keep the MMO in there a full OCI I will wait till 5k miles. That will be 4K on a full QT ( another 1K on slowly increasing concentrations at the start) - as long as you didn't already have a "thin" oil in there to begin with and you aren't taxing the engine with heavy towing while you have the MMO in there you should be fine. I certainly wouldn't be worried. When used as directed, MMO is going to drop the top# of the oil by one grade..so if you were already thin, it could thin it out even more causing oil pressure issues.. but you would know that by now, so like I said you should be okay. Just don't go doing any heavy towing/hauling while you're using the MMO where a thicker oil film would be more desirable. I want to dissolve any sludge that may be in the pickup screen as well. Hoping keeping the MMO in there over the full OCI will do the trick and not need another bath in it. I will see what the oil looks like after the 5k total and decide then. - it will def' have an effect on any sludge or varnish there, just depends on how bad it is. Another product that works exceptionally well as a slow cleaner and has been around since forever is Rislone engine treatment. It has esters in it that slowly dissolve varnish and sludge. Rislone is one of the few mechanic in a can products that actually does what it says. then I probably use the Valvoline Premium Blue 8600 ES Synthetic Blend Heavy Duty SAE 10W-30 Diesel Engine Oil due to availability and price. - good choice; capable of doing extended drain intervals and one i wouldn't mind running in my V6 gasser one day just to see what it's like. I'll use that for one or 2 OCI then go back to my standard.- sounds like a solid plan. 👍
 
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Here's another, albeit a little more "extreme", approach to tackling the oil pick up screen. Don't know if ya caught this but Trav (who's got experience on these things) posted this in your other thread. Berrymans Chem-Dip is pretty strong stuff but after careful consideration of what he's proposing, i can't see how anything could be damaged on the internals that you'd normally be concerned with like oil seals, so long as you follow the procedure he outlined. I've seen YT videos of Chem-Dip at work and it's pretty good stuff.
Originally Posted by Trav
Getting the sludge out of the pan and pickup screen is pretty easy. Put the car on a level surface, drain the oil and replace the plug, buy a gallon of this.. https://www.amazon.com/Berryman-Products-996-Chem-Dip-Carburetor/dp/B00DSMEL2A Fill the gallon into the sump with a funnel down the dipstick tube. Do not turn the engine over or move the car, you don't want it coming into contact with the seals. Let it sit for a couple of days then drain and refill with a gallon of kerosene and drain it. Fill with the cheapest oil you can find and start the engine, run for 10 min at idle then drain and refill with ESP 5w30 and a bottle of Rislone HM additive with a new filter. Run it for 3K The rest of the deposits should take care of themselves unless they are really caked on thick, the pan and pickup will be spotless.
 
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jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Yeah I caught Trav's advice. Seems a bit severe based on what I think was a faulty pressure sensor (after discovering the sludginess) that may have gotten plugged up from sludge. Maybe I'll do one OCI with Risolone after this one (and thicker oil??) . I chose MMO because it worked for another sludgy Saab I bought from a little old man with only 70 K miles on an 11 YO car, short trips only and that worked great till I traded it. Since i am not seeing too dirty of oil (yet) I am inclined to think the screen is ok. If I get any more feels that it is not, I will do trav's method. Just need another car up and my jag has been sitting waiting for a part got a month. Sheesh... One more thing ( am running 0W-30 with 20% MMO (1qt:5qt) is tht too thin? I can always do another MMO or Rislone with a bit thicker oil and go from there. I only drive 2 500 mile trips a week (at 78mph) non-stop. and 4days local 5 miles RT, car barely gets warm in either direction. Thoughts?
 
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WA
I think you're fine really. Obviously if you drove more the MMO would clean more but it is what it is, right? As for you using a 0w30 with the MMO, my guess is your car can run on an Xw20, so even if the MMO thinned the oil down a grade you should be fine.. not to be forgotten, you haven't had a CEL or low oil pressure light right? If you were "too thin" the ECU would throw a code. As for your highway miles, millions of cars zip along at hwy speeds on a 20 grade just fine. Like I said, if this were me I'd be fine with what your doing/how things are working. And I don't see any problem running some Rislone with your diesel oil as it will attack any residual sludge and varnish from a different angle using esters.. maybe run one oci with just plain ol' oil then follow that up with an oci with the Rislone?? From there on regular oil changes with that Valvoline HDEO at a reasonable interval, should keep cleaning things up...👍
 
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Chicago
How hard is it to drop the oil pan and inspect the pick up screen and oil pan. I had a oil pressure light come on a Lexus by known sludge I replaced sender that looked like it was new already so I dropped pan and screen was partially blocked
 
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WA
Originally Posted by groomerz
How hard is it to drop the oil pan and inspect the pick up screen and oil pan. I had a oil pressure light come on a Lexus by known sludge I replaced sender that looked like it was new already so I dropped pan and screen was partially blocked
For someone like me who's almost 50 and a back that needs surgery...not impossible but not a walk in the park either. And maybe someone doesn't want to break a known good pan seal. Plenty of legit reasons to consider alternate approaches..
 
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5,124
Location
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by jssaab
The car as VVT and I have heard that higher viscosity and cold temps and mess with the timing due to the super fine screens in the VVT soleniods
The screens can get clogged up if the OCI is extended out too far on the inappropriate (for the interval) oil. Anecdotal experience: Once BMW moved to GTL(Shell) oil and a 10k mile OCI from a 15k mile OCI solenoid failures became a rare occurrence.
 

jssaab

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Messages
62
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by groomerz
How hard is it to drop the oil pan and inspect the pick up screen and oil pan. I had a oil pressure light come on a Lexus by known sludge I replaced sender that looked like it was new already so I dropped pan and screen was partially blocked
Not impossible, if you pull the engine... I like the @mad_hatter approach so far, will do the HDEO change at 3-5 k miles (when its a warm spell, oil change- only that, then HDEO and Rislone, Then, depending on my mood, when I have my other car back, to the trav method, when I can let it sit for a bit, maybe when its a bit warmer too. Based on the comments abut Trav's process, it seems that will dissolve any crap in the screen. I will post updates as I go Thanks once again for all the thoughtful replies
 
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