Engine oil flush treatments.

[Revving2Redline]

I do the 3 in 1 every 100,000 miles which it CRC GDi throttle cleaning which has PEA, along with Redline Si-1 in the tank and 4 ounces of Gumout Multitune with PEA.

Procedure as follows is the Redline Si-1 the night before after filling up. Get up and add four ounces in crankcase, spray out throttle body then go for 30 minute drive and change oil. I'm more leary of anything added to a crankcase that cautions NOT to drive. If you don't drive it you might not get the oil up to temperature which has been the recommended way to prepare a oil change. Finding a good oil, filters, and an occasional fuel system cleaner will do wonders on its own.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Gents

That may well be a gross over simplification so I would appreciate some opinions Gents please

Many thanks

Tikka.


I'll give you some of my experience in industry on industrial equipment flushing but with the understanding that an IC engine is a slightly different animal with some unique circumstances that a gearbox, crusher or other equipment may not encounter.

This is with extensive experience as a consulting lubrication engineer designing equipment, lube programs including pre installation flushing, on and offline filtering/flushing, filtering, vacuuming/centrifuging of reservoirs and so forth. I've also had the benefit of monitoring a machine from commissioning to rebuild and reviewing PM and Pdm history then look at the guts.

Here is what I've seen over the years.

Flushing- if you do not have HIGH VOLUME at PRESSURE- you are not "flushing" anything. If you are not flushing then al you are doing is gently wetting and accomplishing little to nothing. If your "flushing" is nothing more than following the mechanical path, flow path to drain then you really didn't "flush" but about 20% of the guts and the remaining will quickly contaminate the new stuff when it gets agitated and splashed during operation.

I often have to remove access plates and use a variety of wands to clean the internals during a true flush- that takes time and more than one pass- the vehicle oil pump aint doing that. If you are not "flushing" all the nooks and crannies then I question the effectiveness or justification of the flush in the first place.

Varnishes and "stuff"- first, are they actually on a surface that harms anything? Then they almost always require either strong solvent chemical cleaning and mechanical action. Then you have to flush the flush ( several times usually) or risk damaging the new oil and even the equipment from oil breakdown.

If a "varnish remover" isn't aggressive enough to require several flushes then in my opinion its no better than maybe a quart of Kerosene- if it is then you use up all the savings flushing the flush before you put new oil in.

Excluding online filtration and sweetening maintenance, the true legitimate need for flushing any machine that is properly maintained ( making an exclusion for some machines in applications where this level of contamination cannot be avoided) is rare indeed and personally I don't recommend it.

My experience is when it gets to that level of need- its time for a rebuild.

Just my experience on this.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Gents

That may well be a gross over simplification so I would appreciate some opinions Gents please

Many thanks

Tikka.


I'll give you some of my experience in industry on industrial equipment flushing but with the understanding that an IC engine is a slightly different animal with some unique circumstances that a gearbox, crusher or other equipment may not encounter.

This is with extensive experience as a consulting lubrication engineer designing equipment, lube programs including pre installation flushing, on and offline filtering/flushing, filtering, vacuuming/centrifuging of reservoirs and so forth. I've also had the benefit of monitoring a machine from commissioning to rebuild and reviewing PM and Pdm history then look at the guts.

Here is what I've seen over the years.

Flushing- if you do not have HIGH VOLUME at PRESSURE- you are not "flushing" anything. If you are not flushing then al you are doing is gently wetting and accomplishing little to nothing. If your "flushing" is nothing more than following the mechanical path, flow path to drain then you really didn't "flush" but about 20% of the guts and the remaining will quickly contaminate the new stuff when it gets agitated and splashed during operation.

I often have to remove access plates and use a variety of wands to clean the internals during a true flush- that takes time and more than one pass- the vehicle oil pump aint doing that. If you are not "flushing" all the nooks and crannies then I question the effectiveness or justification of the flush in the first place.

Varnishes and "stuff"- first, are they actually on a surface that harms anything? Then they almost always require either strong solvent chemical cleaning and mechanical action. Then you have to flush the flush ( several times usually) or risk damaging the new oil and even the equipment from oil breakdown.

If a "varnish remover" isn't aggressive enough to require several flushes then in my opinion its no better than maybe a quart of Kerosene- if it is then you use up all the savings flushing the flush before you put new oil in.

Excluding online filtration and sweetening maintenance, the true legitimate need for flushing any machine that is properly maintained ( making an exclusion for some machines in applications where this level of contamination cannot be avoided) is rare indeed and personally I don't recommend it.

My experience is when it gets to that level of need- its time for a rebuild.

Just my experience on this.



After reading this and doing some thinking it's clear to me that the best thing to do is maybe use an oil with esters to help with the cleaning and really good oil and air filtration. He mentioned that your only going to get around twenty percent removed at best leaving most of it remaining. In standard oil changes there's around 20 percent left behind that will never be removed from drain and fill. Thanks for bringing this to light!! I will skip adding the Gumout q 100k miles to crankcase and just use it in fuel.

 

[DallasTexas]

Tikka, +++Kreen, however not sure if Kano Lab would ship it to UK. I have used it on OM606 with almost 300k Miles and have used it on my current OM648 (not sure if it needed it) but Kreen will clean it up for sure.

 

[TiGeo]

Just used the Liquimoly Proline engine flush with my most recent change. I pulled a sample first for UOA to get a "before" sample. Ran the flush per their instructions - dump it in and run the car 10-15 minutes, then drain the oil. I took an after sample as well - should be interesting to see what differences there are. Car runs the same as before (as would be expected).

 

[Trav]

This one works pretty good. It is effective on varnish and piston ring deposits, no it will not dissolve all the varnish in 15 min but it softens it enough that the oils detergents can effectively remove it over the course of a few oil changes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GS8HNSO/ref=dp_cerb_2

 

[adamsoil]

Haha i love this subject, the haters gonna hate

Tried nearly everyone available here and the winner is Liqui Moly Engine Flush Plus (300ml) and the slightly stronger Liqui Moly Engine Detox (500ml)

Cleans away the smaller micron particles, clears turbo lines and turbo filters and cleans the rings, plus other stuff haha definitely notice the difference.

Nearly every professional mechanic here and in Australia use an engine oil flush.

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by adamsoil
Haha i love this subject, the haters gonna hate

Tried nearly everyone available here and the winner is Liqui Moly Engine Flush Plus (300ml) and the slightly stronger Liqui Moly Engine Detox (500ml)

Cleans away the smaller micron particles, clears turbo lines and turbo filters and cleans the rings, plus other stuff haha definitely notice the difference.

Nearly every professional mechanic here and in Australia use an engine oil flush.


Good stuff. It certainly can't hurt and for ~$10 once a year or so, why not?

 

[TiGeo]

Before and after LM engine flush - 2 column on left. Nothing really stands out.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
Before and after LM engine flush - 2 column on left. Nothing really stands out.


Honestly, it mirrors many I have run over the years ( on industrial chemical flushes)

What are your thoughts now that you have conducted your own test if I may? (mine are up thread)

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Before and after LM engine flush - 2 column on left. Nothing really stands out.


Honestly, it mirrors many I have run over the years ( on industrial chemical flushes)

What are your thoughts now that you have conducted your own test if I may? (mine are up thread)


For ~$10, it's not breaking the bank and doesn't hurt a thing. I'm not sure what is "supposed" to show up in a UOA from a flush...what comes out should just chemically be the same thing as the oil (to me?). I probably won't bother again for another 20K miles or so. I believe this is essentially kerosene.

 

[97tbird]

Wonder how the LM compares to Lubeguard flush...
Anyone try the Lubeguard engine flush?

https://www.lubegard.com/products/engineflush/

 

[Revving2Redline]

Originally Posted by 97tbird
Wonder how the LM compares to Lubeguard flush...
Anyone try the Lubeguard engine flush?

https://www.lubegard.com/products/engineflush/

Haven't tried the lubegard flush, but it's probably detergent based as is the Amsoil flush. It's probably safe either one. Get whichever ever one is cheaper use it and try and go up a bracket on oil quality and filtration measures and down a notch on oci duration/operation. I'm fine with occasional flush but if it's a regular thing then whatever product is being used isn't worth it. If you use the lubegard and it works well then let me know. I might try it at 350,000-400,000 miles when I swap out the timing chain for a new one.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

There's a video on YouTube of a guy who used either Amsoil or LM engine flush. He changed the oil & filter, ran it for a couple of miles, took a sample, then ran the engine flush for the prescribed period of time and took a sample of that.

End result was that there was no color difference between the clean oil and clean oil with the engine flush.

 

[nicholas]

I dont put much faith into youtubers....except maybe project farm.

I just used Lubromoly on a 16 mazda 6 we just bought.
Did not the driving history.

Used it on brand new oil.
After 15min idle it came out nice and dark.

That's good proof to me. It also did not smell like a toxic spill.

Used BG EPR once. That smell almost made me pass out.....crazy strong solvents.

 

[talest]

Project Farm is cool but most of his tests are on tractors and farm equipment. Though he did run SeaFoam in his Ford Ranger I forget if he had the 4 cylinder or the 4.0 but he said it cleaned it up very well.

Not sure if mentioned, but Gunk MotorMedic flush has some Kerosene and some Diesel Fuel, says so right on the bottle.

What I have been taught is, that. If you use an engine flush.. it will move sludge from wherever it is to somewhere it is not supposed to be, maybe an oil pick-up tube, and starve all or part of the engine of oil. Then again, it might not, but. Some YouTubers use half the bottle when it is oil change time. What do you think about that practice?

I would question If these are really needed at all, or do they in fact help?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by nicholas
I dont put much faith into youtubers....except maybe project farm.

I just used Lubromoly on a 16 mazda 6 we just bought.
Did not the driving history.

Used it on brand new oil.
After 15min idle it came out nice and dark.

That's good proof to me. It also did not smell like a toxic spill.

Used BG EPR once. That smell almost made me pass out.....crazy strong solvents.


Fast forward to 8.40 min mark

 

[eyeofthetiger]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by nicholas
I dont put much faith into youtubers....except maybe project farm.

I just used Lubromoly on a 16 mazda 6 we just bought.
Did not the driving history.

Used it on brand new oil.
After 15min idle it came out nice and dark.

That's good proof to me. It also did not smell like a toxic spill.

Used BG EPR once. That smell almost made me pass out.....crazy strong solvents.


Fast forward to 8.40 min mark



It looks like some fresh oil has enough detergents in it without a flush additive. I have done consecutive, short interval oil changes on dirty engines to clean then out, and it does work to keep the oil looking clean for longer. It does nothing for the caked on sludge, but I don't want that breaking loose unless I plan on removing valve covers and oil pans.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by eyeofthetiger
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by nicholas
I dont put much faith into youtubers....except maybe project farm.

I just used Lubromoly on a 16 mazda 6 we just bought.
Did not the driving history.

Used it on brand new oil.
After 15min idle it came out nice and dark.

That's good proof to me. It also did not smell like a toxic spill.

Used BG EPR once. That smell almost made me pass out.....crazy strong solvents.


Fast forward to 8.40 min mark



It looks like some fresh oil has enough detergents in it without a flush additive. I have done consecutive, short interval oil changes on dirty engines to clean then out, and it does work to keep the oil looking clean for longer. It does nothing for the caked on sludge, but I don't want that breaking loose unless I plan on removing valve covers and oil pans.


IMO this video is the best out there on this subject. This Amsoil product simply doesn't work OR with a proper OCI oils today keep engines extremely clean. The lack of color difference between the new oil (run for 1 hour) and the new oil additized with the engine flush is remarkable.

 

[TiGeo]

I'd say it's the later - modern engines are just v. clean due to the high-quality syn oils we use now. The flushes aren't hurting anything, but there just isn't much to remove.