"Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag

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Originally Posted by Forbes
A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability. Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds. The only exceptions are countries such as Poland, where the electricity network is still mostly based on coal-fired power generation. In countries with a heavily decarbonised system such as Sweden and France, which have large amounts of renewable and nuclear generating capacity, the average lifetime emissions from electric cars are up to 70% lower than petrol cars, while in the UK, which is rapidly phasing out coal but still has a reasonable amount of gas-fired power plants, emissions are around 30% lower. It's not just cars - electric heating options are more climate-friendly, too. The study found that electric household heat pumps also produce lower emissions than fossil-fuel alternatives in 95% of the world. Heat pumps could reduce global CO2 emissions in 2050 by up to 0.8 gigatons per year - roughly equal to Germany's current annual emissions. "The idea that electric vehicles or electric heat pumps could increase emissions is essentially a myth," said lead author Dr Florian Knobloch, from the University of Nijmegen. "We've seen a lot of discussion about this recently, with lots of disinformation going around. Here is a definitive study that can dispel those myths. We have run the numbers for all around the world, looking at a whole range of cars and heating systems. "Even in our worst-case scenario, there would be a reduction in emissions in almost all cases. This insight should be very useful for policy-makers." The study  divided the world into 59 regions to account for differences in power generation and technology. In 53 of these regions - including the US, China and most of Europe - the findings show electric cars and heat pumps are already less emission-intensive than fossil fuel alternatives. These 53 regions represent 95% of global transport and heating demand and, with energy production decarbonising worldwide, senior author Dr Jean-Francois Mercure from the University of Exeter said the "last few debatable cases will soon disappear." "Understanding the effect of low-carbon innovations on relevant sectors of the economy, such as heating and transport, is crucial for the development of effective policy," said co-author Dr Pablo Salas, from the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership. "We hope our work can inform the policy process here in the UK and abroad, particularly around discussions of the new carbon targets under the Paris Agreement framework." The researchers carried out a life-cycle assessment in which calculated greenhouse gas emissions generated when using cars and heating systems, as well as in the production chain and waste processing for those sectors.
 
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Notice how they contradict themselves pretty quickly with "decarbonized system"! Of course, if you could recharge your electric car from wind or solar, it would be better for carbon emissions! Only takes a week to charge enough to go 10 miles here, though (in the land of heavy cloud cover & not enough consistent wind)!
 
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Originally Posted by wemay
A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.
Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it. Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL
 
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As a bit of a nerd, I've run the numbers too. My conclusion DOES NOT mirror theirs in a best case situation. Furthermore, the claim that heat pumps are more efficient than direct modern fossil fuel heat is not based in fact. The item that is true: Emissions are easier to control at a single source, one in near continuous operation. CC NG power plant 64%, at the PP fence, 54% (some of the power is used to run the plant, and there are step up losses) Grid losses 7% Grid to wheel losses 38 to 41%. Not much leeway here, as grid AC gets converted to DC in the charger, the battery gets charged at a loss, the battery gives up it's charge at a loss, the electronics convert DC to AC and drive the motor(s) which have a peak efficiency around 90%. The bottom line remains the same. Best case: 116,000 BTU worth of Natural Gas can power a Tesla 29 miles. (roughly the equivalent of a gallon of non ethanol gasoline) Worst case: Coal 116,000 BTU will power a Tesla about 18 miles.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by wemay
A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.
Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it. Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL
Exactly right in my opinion...^^^^^^^
 
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Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by wemay
A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.
Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it. Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL
Exactly right in my opinion...^^^^^^^
Yes, but that works in both directions. Lol. cheers
 
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Typical tunnel vision ! They don't account for the carbon produced in manufacturing either the whole car or just only the batteries. There is no doubt IMO that electric cars are here to stay and grow, but it will not be the plug-ins only the fuel cell will grow as soon as the infrastructure gets set-up.
 
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Originally Posted by Cujet
As a bit of a nerd, I've run the numbers too. My conclusion DOES NOT mirror theirs in a best case situation. Furthermore, the claim that heat pumps are more efficient than direct modern fossil fuel heat is not based in fact. The item that is true: Emissions are easier to control at a single source, one in near continuous operation. CC NG power plant 64%, at the PP fence, 54% (some of the power is used to run the plant, and there are step up losses) Grid losses 7% Grid to wheel losses 38 to 41%. Not much leeway here, as grid AC gets converted to DC in the charger, the battery gets charged at a loss, the battery gives up it's charge at a loss, the electronics convert DC to AC and drive the motor(s) which have a peak efficiency around 90%. The bottom line remains the same. Best case: 116,000 BTU worth of Natural Gas can power a Tesla 29 miles. (roughly the equivalent of a gallon of non ethanol gasoline) Worst case: Coal 116,000 BTU will power a Tesla about 18 miles.
Should you include the fuel used to move gasoline from the bulk terminals (the BULK terminals, which are roughly analogous to large power plants, not small tank farms) to each gas station, and the energy used to pump it into and back out of the holding tanks? That seems like it would be a more even comparison to what you calculated for the all-electricity side.
 
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I never did believe for a minute that electric vehicles were zero emissions. That electric has to be produced by something. The overall mix of wind and solar is very small. Lots of fossil fuels used to generate. I do believe that heat pumps, under the right conditions can save on emissions as they are capable of producing about three times more energy than they use. I have used a geothermal ground loop heat pump at my house for 22 years and have seen the results.
 
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Easily believable. The energy efficiency of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles is atrocious. The Tesla Model Y is around FOUR TIMES as energy efficient as similar sized AWD crossovers. [Linked Image]
 

JHZR2

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Of course a heat pump is cleaner on a carbon basis then a furnace or boiler, if fed electricity from nuclear or renewables. It's just idiotic. Tell me the same story from a NG plant, compared to my 97% efficient mod/con boiler. There's something to be said about a centralized plant, with scrubbers and centralized management of emissions being cleaner. Even with transmission and conversion losses, it's going to be better then a vehicle IC engine short tripping and returning poor mpgs. But add in the nuance of the battery, which isn't all bad, but does have downsides... That's why phev and cars with tiny generators, like the BMW i3, really are the most ideal if implemented properly.
 

JHZR2

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Originally Posted by E365
Easily believable. The energy efficiency of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles is atrocious. The Tesla Model Y is more than FOUR TIMES as energy efficient as similar sized AWD crossovers. [Linked Image]
Those numbers don't really make sense. They are only relevant if the energy and losses up to the full battery charge were emission free and lossless. They claim 28kWh/100mi. 114000 btu = ~33kWh. 114k btu is the energy in one gallon of gas.
 

4WD

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Well, there have been many say that the days of the ICE are almost gone. Here we are drowning in cheap oil and already forecasting a shortage of surface minerals …
 

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Each car uses four tires plus a spare, right? Automotive tires are made of Synthetic rubber which is a compound of synthetic rubber consisting of styrene butadiene (SBR), polyacrylics, and polyvinyl acetate (PVA); other kinds include polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polychloroprene (better known as neoprene), and various types of polyurethane. The above hydrocarbons are derived from petroleum. What is the total cost and emissions load from the well to the tire for both types of vehicles?
 
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