Does ambient air temperature matter or not for Oil

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I am greatly confused about one main thing: Air and climate temperature, vs grade of oil selected for a car. Please let me explain.

In almost any pre-2001 car manual (and some after that) i see, i see charts of temperature vs grades listed for the engine. Most charts list 10W-40 from around 10 or 20 degrees, those graphic arrow charts (the lowest ambient temperature i saw listed acceptable to 10W-40 was "4 degrees," i forget in which manual) - up to 100+. Then 10W-30 is listed as 0 or -5 on up, with 5W-30 going to approx. -20, on up. This is reason number one for the confusion.

Reason number two is how much the cooling system does, or does not, keep engine temperature in check! Lets say i am in Eagle Pass, TX which was 113 degrees on July 14th, and then a month or two later went up to Maine where it was ten degrees in the morning. Would the 5W-20 motor oil be fine in both applications , would the engine cooling system be keeping the engine cool even in the hot hot heat? Why, then, different grade recommendations?

I presently have a mix of 5W-20 and 5W-30 in my vehicle. It is an older vehicle. It is a V6, a midsized one with an automatic trans in a last-year 1995 Sable LS (not the GS, and not the SHO that was in the Ford models.) I decided to go as thin as i was comfortable with, since 5W-20 and 5W-30 debate is also a fierce one (If 5W-30 turns to 5W-20 anyway, etc etc.) My engine revs freer, and i ask if i have more power, yet i do not go full 5W-20 since i am worried about if i am accelerating wear by going thinner.

I do know that "as long as minimum Oil pressure is maintained, i will be ok." I also know that i want to be "As thick as necessary, but as thin as possible" and i think i have achieved this, i do not know my oil pressure. I also know that "Thinner oil when the engine is hot is best, since it transfers heat better, makes the oil pump work easier, and provides maximum lubrication as long as the flash point of the oil is not reached." I think i have reached the as thin as possible point with the 5W-20 of 2.5 quarts, and 5W-30 of the same amount.

But what about the ambient temperature? I dont understand this at all. I could be either doing burnouts in a parking lot, or cruising on the highway for hours at a time. Is my 5W20/5W30 mix ok in either situation? I use conventional Nextgen oil, mixing the 20 and the 30 of that oil. TY
 
The charts have confused things along with CAFE, but your thinking is correct in the old saying"thin as possible thick as necessary".
You have tried to strike a balance which is fine. In a healthy cooling system your vehicles temp will fluctuate slightly in death valley as opposed to maine in the winter, but not much. You can easily run a 5w30 in there as well as a 5w20. It really doesn't matter. Both are good oil (assuming they are quality name brands). The Nextgen conventional is probably BETTER than the regular VWB. Valvoline was NOT going to let this be a flop, they had to prove it was as good or better than their regular. You are using a very good oil and I would flip a coin and run either one or you can mix if you wish. Ambient temps SHOULD be controlled by the cooling system no problem. Your vehicles life will be the same running 5w20 or 5w30 all things equal. I am like you and blend a little thick, which I honestly thing is totally unnecessary. I just like to do it sometimes. Hope this helped a little.
 
Oil viscosity varies by temperature. The 0w30 acts like a 0 weight oil when cold, and a 30 weight oil when hot. 10w30 also acts like a 30 weight when hot, but is thicker when cold, acting like a 10 weight oil. (Bob has some oil viscosity charts on here)

So at startup, yes temperature makes a difference in how your oil works, which is why manufacturers have charts for what they say you should use.

Hot vs Cold:

In Texas, it's hot and your cooling system works harder to keep your engine cool. Your oil temperature reaches a certain point and stays there (theoretically).

In Maine where it's cooler, your cooling system does not have to work as hard to maintain the proper temperature. Your thermostat opens and closes less frequently. Your oil might reach the same temps as in TX, unless you're driving short trips and it doesn't have time to warm up.
 
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Originally Posted By: 45ACP
I do know that "as long as minimum Oil pressure is maintained, i will be ok."


Oil pressure will get the oil there, but the question is: once the oil is there, does it lubricate?
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The colder the ambient temperature, the longer it will take for the oil to reach an equilibrium temperature. The reverse is true for hotter ambient temperatures.

The reason for the older oil viscosity charts verses the newer ones, is that newer oils have higher viscosity indices than the older mineral oils, which means the newer oils don't change viscosities as much from one temperature extreme to another.

Consider too, if the coolant didn't keep the liner temperature in check, the oil would reach a very high temperature and degrade very fast.

Quote:
Is my 5W20/5W30 mix ok in either situation? I


No problem.
 
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Don't forget that during very cold weather, the water/coolant flowing into the engine, from the radiator, is exceptionally cold. The flow rate is low, due to a mostly closed thermostat. Measurement of inlet and outlet temps in Alaska based vehicles can have a temperature differential of over 200 degrees F.

In many conventional engines, the oil temp is directly related to the coolant inlet temperature.

So, the answer is quite simple. In extremes, adjust accordingly.

I find that my Ford trucks, my turbocharged sports cars and my Jaguar all have far better UOA results with a slightly heavier viscosity oil. I'm based in S. Florida, where it's hot, but at least it's humid.
 
I've got a clear bottle of 10W-40 in the garage right now. The oil inside the bottle sloshes around very freely. Why does it slosh around so freely? Because it's 104 degrees Fahrenheit out there right now. If I take that same oil (which I have) and put it in the freezer, it slows down quiet a bit. That's why I'm thinking you'd get very little wear (if any at all) at startup with 10W-40 being at an ambient temperature of 104F. Take that same oil on a Winter day at 32F and your chances of having wear at startup increases substantially. Once the the oil gets to operating temperature, (with all things being equal) the ambient temperature makes no difference on engine wear between Winter and Summer.
 
Since my car as stock has an oil cooler/heater plumbed directly across the radiator, I find that blocking the radiator partly in winter (ambient 32-40 F) raises the oil temperature significantly to about what it would be in summer (ambient 70-90 F.) Decreasing the radiator's effectiveness and therefore increasing the coolant flow through it makes the oil warmer by 10-15 degrees to around 200 F.
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP

In almost any pre-2001 car manual (and some after that) i see, i see charts of temperature vs grades listed for the engine. Most charts list 10W-40 from around 10 or 20 degrees, those graphic arrow charts (the lowest ambient temperature i saw listed acceptable to 10W-40 was "4 degrees," i forget in which manual) - up to 100+. Then 10W-30 is listed as 0 or -5 on up, with 5W-30 going to approx. -20, on up. This is reason number one for the confusion.



I don't remember if 5w-30 was energy conserving back in the 90's but maybe engineers didn't want oil to be 20 grade. 5w-30 oil "for gasoline engines" thins during the first part of an oil change interval.
 
Ambient air temps have a very significant effect on the oil and general engine temperatures.
The greater the temperature differential, the faster the heat loss.
 
Keep in mind that there is never one engine temperature. If the vehicle has a thermometer (engine temperature dash gauge), that is only showing the temperature of the coolant at the point of the sensor. The thermostat is only regulating the temperature of the coolant at its location, and only within its proportional band, maybe a 10°F spread from cracked open to wide open (and if the spread is different, pls post).

So...This is generally no problem. In extreme temperatures some consideration must be made for the fact that air temperature does make a difference, along with how hard the engine is worked. I choose to use an oil with one grade higher viscosity in extremely hot weather when working the engine hard and with one "-W" grade lower in extremely frigid weather (below -20°F for sure).
 
Today's engines and cooling systems are much more refined and can maintain a much closer engine temperature than before, allowing the thinner oils.

Look at the combined systems of electronic controls on radiator fans, the dual water thermostats on some cars that open early to cool the heads, then open and close as necessary to maintain the right temperature in the block. The system is built for the max, then controlled so as not to over cool.

My Grand Cherokee saw no movement of the temperature gauge as I climbed several hours up the mountain a few months ago with it fully loaded, 108F ambient temps, and 5W-20 oil.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Ambient air temps have a very significant effect on the oil and general engine temperatures.
The greater the temperature differential, the faster the heat loss.


Rush Hour stop n go in Dallas = severe service!

More frequent fuel dilution in extreme cold temps. Don't wait for May to change the oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: jorton


Rush Hour stop n go in Dallas = severe service!


10w-40, 10w-30, 5w-30

Which grade is severe oil? Mix that with your 5w-20.
 
IMO, engine internal finishing design play a big part to determine the oil viscosity, especially if the car equipped with manual gearbox. Even though thin oil may not make different on high rpm hot ambient temperature, it may produce significant different on old engine coupled with manual gearbox on 100F jammed traffic in the city, thin oil may not give enough cushion to the engine bearing when someone dump the clutch.
With not so significant difference on fuel economy, I would rather stay with 30-weight for pre-2000 cars or light 40 to ensure the car is lasting.
My guess is SN/SM 30-weight oil can protect the same with 40-weight mineral oil produced in 2000, except maybe for non-roller type cam.
 
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