I tend to run shell, the local chevron is gone so I switched to shell at that time. With gas prices being cheap I really could care less price wise just like to try to get gas from places selling a lot of fuel. I never see this top tier logo around here but on a recent trip to Tennessee I saw a top tier sticker on a shell pump.
Do you ever buy non top tier gas when top tier is available?
- Thread starter Joe1
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95 percent Top Tier, 90 percent of that Costco.
From a cost standpoint, I use ARCO, which is top tier, and is very competitive with the no-name brand gasolines.
If I'm in an area that doesn't have ARCO, then I'll still use another more expensive Top Tier brand
If I'm in an area that doesn't have ARCO, then I'll still use another more expensive Top Tier brand
Very rarely. I typically buy Shell or Exxon.
Most of the fuel in my neighborhood is top tier. Shell and Valero.
Never noticed a difference between using those or using Exxon, of 7-11 gas, or even walmart.
Never noticed a difference between using those or using Exxon, of 7-11 gas, or even walmart.
Depends on what a "source" is, because it's rarely just one refinery. Base fuel is a fungible commodity that's traded on the commodity market and moved by the major pipeline companies. A pipeline/terminal company like Kinder Morgan can do segregated deliveries, but the majority of what they do is just trading of fungible generic fuel meeting industry standards where they get to decide what moves where. The only contractual requirement is that X amount of fuel has to be available to customers at terminal B. It may even be mixed together from the output of different refineries.
Shell is no longer a producer of fuel in California. Shell recently sold its last California refinery (Martinez), which was their first American refinery and their only one that made California reformulated fuel. They have a massive distribution facility in Carson though, but that's just moving fuel that they buy/trade from other suppliers.
I understand there's this notion that these are large, vertically integrated companies that do everything from exploration to transport, refining, and retail. Many of these companies do that some extent, but certainly not as much as many would think. Maybe Chevron and Shell do, but not in all markets. And even then, they horse trade in fuel for any number of reasons including maintenance, accidents, shortages, etc. They also use the major pipeline companies to get fuel to their retail customers, and they guarantee fungible commodity fuel and not that any fuel came from a specific refinery. It's certainly not guaranteed that a Chevron station in Bakersfield is selling fuel that came from El Segundo or Richmond. More than likely it's mixed fuel from a bunch of different refineries.
Top Tier only guarantees that the additive package meets the standard. And the real irony is that ANY brand could meet it as long as they're willing to guarantee that every gas station with the brand meets the requirement. It doesn't have to be unique as BASF, Afton, Chevron Oronite, and Lubrizol have off the shelf Top Tier tested additives where the retailer can just submit the test results.
Sure, but the fact remains that additive packages depend on the retailer. Shell has their own. BP has their own, and so-on. So the gas that comes from the pump is not all the same, even if it came out of the same tank or pipe at the terminal.
Shel_B
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Just curious, why the different preferences?
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Been using Sam"s Club in my truck. Getting good mileage and no driveability issues. I use their 91 octane E-10 premium also in the BMW cycle. 30-40¢ a gal cheaper than other premiums around town. No issues.
Although when I buy the Amoco Ultimate 93 octane at BP my bike purrs so nice.
Although when I buy the Amoco Ultimate 93 octane at BP my bike purrs so nice.
Must be nice ! Have to travel about 15 miles to get Top Tier gas . Disappearing in this region .
I buy gasoline from the lowest bidder as indicated by Gas Buddy.
My requirements are a clean, well-lit, high volume station.
If there is a vendor close by that are blessed by the "Top Tier" Gods that meet my three requirements for the same price, why not?
I filled up the new Pilot at Sam's last night. It didn't seem to mind.
My requirements are a clean, well-lit, high volume station.
If there is a vendor close by that are blessed by the "Top Tier" Gods that meet my three requirements for the same price, why not?
I filled up the new Pilot at Sam's last night. It didn't seem to mind.
Well - the thing about meeting Top Tier requirements is that the additive doesn't need to be unique. It just needs to meet their performance standards with the testing data available, and a pledge to use it in minimum concentrations (at least that of the test) at every branded station. Regardless of their marketing materials, there's no guarantee that Shell or BP actually have their own additive other than a marketing name. Shell and ExxonMobil own Infineum, and at one time Infineum had a single gasoline detergent additive on the EPA registered detergent additive list. Not sure if this was what Shell, Exxon, and Mobil stations were using, but it could have been the case. I'm pretty sure that Chevron has a truly proprietary additive formula that only they use. However, Chevron Oronite sells similar products to Chevron's competitors.
There are bound to be different Top Tier retailers (even some of the big oil retailers) that purchase and use the exact same additives from one of the big additive chemical companies. From a marketing standpoint, there's really no need to develop a unique additive, although there are companies like Costco that paid Lubrizol to develop an exclusive additive.
HiTEC®6590 Light Duty Gas Additive | Afton Chemical
HiTEC®6590 light duty gas performance additive delivers powerful keep-clean & clean-up performance at cost effective treat rates. Click to download the PDS.
www.aftonchemical.com
Gasoline Fuel Additives | Chevron Oronite (Global)
Oronite specializes in gasoline additives that deliver performance in all types of gasoline.
www.oronite.com
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Yes, Wawa.
There's probably some test somewhere that checks it. However, the Top Tier standard test requirements are similar to EPA requirements, just with a requirement for lower levels of deposits.
Here's the EPA requirement (40 CFR §80.165):
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR) published by the Government Publishing Office
www.ecfr.gov
(a) Fuel injector deposit control testing. The required test fuel must produce no more than 5% flow restriction in any one injector when tested in accordance with ASTM D5598. At the option of the certifier, fuel injector flow may be measured at intervals during the 10,000 mile test cycle described in ASTM D5598, in addition to the flow measurements required at the completion of the test cycle, but not more than every 1,000 miles.
(b) Intake valve deposit control testing. The required test fuel must produce the accumulation of less than 100 mg of intake valve deposits on average when tested in accordance with ASTM D5500.
And Top Tier:
4.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 4.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such that IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves. Results for individual valves and an average shall be reported. The unwashed gum level of the fuel containing deposit control additive shall be determined according to ASTM D 381 and reported.
Not sure what this means long term though. Anyone is free to go through all the requirements. One of them was that the base fuel itself is required to create a certain amount of deposits in the absence of a detergent additive, which makes sense. The Top Tier requirements are that the base fuel has to create at least 500 mg of average deposits per intake valve during the test sequence. But it looks like the EPA is different.
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR) published by the Government Publishing Office
www.ecfr.gov
Still - any Top Tier fuel already meets EPA minimums by definition. Some of the marketing materials for these additives indicate that the same additive is certified for use at the "lowest additive concentration" level (EPA min) or Top Tier at a higher concentration.
I buy the cheapest TT fuel as indicated by Gas Buddy.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
And these will be selling Exxon, Mobil, or Shell where I travel … so I don’t really get any others …
using Top Tier fuels should get you gasoline that meets or exceeds a standard...a standard set by vehicle manufacturers...
is using non Top Tier better for your vehicle?...is using non Top Tier gasoline worse for your vehicle???...how would you know???
the way I look at it, using Top Tier gasoline at least meets (or exceeds) a standard set by my vehicle manufacturer for certain things and if I don't have to pay extra for it (and I don't in ChicagoLand) why not use it???...I've never read of any issues that are gasoline related for using Top Tier gasolines...I use Costco Top Tier gasoline whenever I can...
seems like an easy choice to make...good luck with your choice
Bill
is using non Top Tier better for your vehicle?...is using non Top Tier gasoline worse for your vehicle???...how would you know???
the way I look at it, using Top Tier gasoline at least meets (or exceeds) a standard set by my vehicle manufacturer for certain things and if I don't have to pay extra for it (and I don't in ChicagoLand) why not use it???...I've never read of any issues that are gasoline related for using Top Tier gasolines...I use Costco Top Tier gasoline whenever I can...
seems like an easy choice to make...good luck with your choice
Bill
I don't recall being in your truck. Was I drinking that night ... again?
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