Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
Do you agree with this statement?
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Maby so, but at some point the oil gets to old or to used and engine wear goes up.
Useing oil too long and having all those contaminets, ect wear your engine is I think worse than the slight wear you get from new oil.
Its like changeing your breakpads, oil may need to be broken in a little to work at its best. but I would rather change my pads more, than run them to the bare end, and risk warping my rotors.
So you have to find a middle ground, and thats whats been argued since the concept of motor oil.
Welcome to the argument!!!
I personaly change my synthetic every 4-5 thousand miles. could I go longer? Yes. Could I go shorter? Yes. I have found my middle ground, and I am happy with it. you find your OCI, and be happy with it.
Useing oil too long and having all those contaminets, ect wear your engine is I think worse than the slight wear you get from new oil.
Its like changeing your breakpads, oil may need to be broken in a little to work at its best. but I would rather change my pads more, than run them to the bare end, and risk warping my rotors.
So you have to find a middle ground, and thats whats been argued since the concept of motor oil.
Welcome to the argument!!!
I personaly change my synthetic every 4-5 thousand miles. could I go longer? Yes. Could I go shorter? Yes. I have found my middle ground, and I am happy with it. you find your OCI, and be happy with it.
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MolaKule
Staff member
We had some prior dicussion on a similar if not the same topic here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-drain-interval-on-valvetrain-friction-wear.91247/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-drain-interval-on-valvetrain-friction-wear.91247/
Originally Posted By: HARTZSKY
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages.
No, I do NOT believe it because it is illogical and counter-intuitive. OTOH, if someone comes up with a logical explanation as to why this happens, I can change my mind in the blink of an eye.
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages.
No, I do NOT believe it because it is illogical and counter-intuitive. OTOH, if someone comes up with a logical explanation as to why this happens, I can change my mind in the blink of an eye.
How about this? Sludge/wear particles are not suspended as well toward the end of the OCI. New oil, with a fresh full ad pack, loosens up that deposited stuff early in the new oil change. If you sample it early, there's more suspended stuff to show up on an oil analysis.
Originally Posted By: olddognewtrks
How about this? Sludge/wear particles are not suspended as well toward the end of the OCI. New oil, with a fresh full ad pack, loosens up that deposited stuff early in the new oil change. If you sample it early, there's more suspended stuff to show up on an oil analysis.
Well, OK then. At least there's some logic here. However, this scenario doesn't call for more wear with fresh oil, it sez more sub-filterable wear particles show up in fresh oil because of the fresh detergents. One would hope that those promoting the "more wear with fresh oil" would have considered this possibility before jumping to their illogical conclusion.
How about this? Sludge/wear particles are not suspended as well toward the end of the OCI. New oil, with a fresh full ad pack, loosens up that deposited stuff early in the new oil change. If you sample it early, there's more suspended stuff to show up on an oil analysis.
Well, OK then. At least there's some logic here. However, this scenario doesn't call for more wear with fresh oil, it sez more sub-filterable wear particles show up in fresh oil because of the fresh detergents. One would hope that those promoting the "more wear with fresh oil" would have considered this possibility before jumping to their illogical conclusion.
I change oil and filter at 3000 miles OCI. I only have 300,000 miles on my Toyota, 204,000 miles on my Chevrolet, and 2,200 miles on my 2008 Silverado, which is on its second oil and filter change. I hope I haven't ruined those engines.
Originally Posted By: olddognewtrks
How about this? Sludge/wear particles are not suspended as well toward the end of the OCI. New oil, with a fresh full ad pack, loosens up that deposited stuff early in the new oil change. If you sample it early, there's more suspended stuff to show up on an oil analysis.
You might just be on to something. I don't buy into the argument either. I'll take fresh clean oil over oil that's been in use for 3000-5000 miles any day. Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. If that were the case then why not change a filter and half of the oil in the crankcase every 5000 miles (dino) -10,000 miles (synthetic) and call it a day? Then you have the best of both worlds. It would probably work well too
JMO,
Frank D
How about this? Sludge/wear particles are not suspended as well toward the end of the OCI. New oil, with a fresh full ad pack, loosens up that deposited stuff early in the new oil change. If you sample it early, there's more suspended stuff to show up on an oil analysis.
You might just be on to something. I don't buy into the argument either. I'll take fresh clean oil over oil that's been in use for 3000-5000 miles any day. Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. If that were the case then why not change a filter and half of the oil in the crankcase every 5000 miles (dino) -10,000 miles (synthetic) and call it a day? Then you have the best of both worlds. It would probably work well too
JMO,
Frank D
Originally Posted By: FrankN4
I change oil and filter at 3000 miles OCI. I only have 300,000 miles on my Toyota, 204,000 miles on my Chevrolet, and 2,200 miles on my 2008 Silverado, which is on its second oil and filter change. I hope I haven't ruined those engines.
0o0o0o0o NOOOOOO
Man those engines are toast!
I change oil and filter at 3000 miles OCI. I only have 300,000 miles on my Toyota, 204,000 miles on my Chevrolet, and 2,200 miles on my 2008 Silverado, which is on its second oil and filter change. I hope I haven't ruined those engines.
0o0o0o0o NOOOOOO
Man those engines are toast!
Is there a special additive we need start using during the "oil break-in" period?
Originally Posted By: MojaveK20
Is there a special additive we need start using during the "oil break-in" period?
Nope.
Just change the oil and filter. I'd go a shorter OCI for the first one since there is going to be more metals and contamination in the oil.
Nothing special is needed.
Take care, Bill
Is there a special additive we need start using during the "oil break-in" period?
Nope.
Just change the oil and filter. I'd go a shorter OCI for the first one since there is going to be more metals and contamination in the oil.
Nothing special is needed.
Take care, Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: MojaveK20
Is there a special additive we need start using during the "oil break-in" period?
Nope.
Just change the oil and filter. I'd go a shorter OCI for the first one since there is going to be more metals and contamination in the oil.
Nothing special is needed.
Take care, Bill
I was making a funny
Originally Posted By: MojaveK20
Is there a special additive we need start using during the "oil break-in" period?
Nope.
Just change the oil and filter. I'd go a shorter OCI for the first one since there is going to be more metals and contamination in the oil.
Nothing special is needed.
Take care, Bill
I was making a funny
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Originally Posted By: Gary in Sandy Eggo
Originally Posted By: HARTZSKY
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages.
No, I do NOT believe it because it is illogical and counter-intuitive. OTOH, if someone comes up with a logical explanation as to why this happens, I can change my mind in the blink of an eye.
The main thing to understand ..whether (apparently) true or not ...it probably doesn't make any difference in any way that you can measure it in terms of longevity. You don't have enough descendants.
Originally Posted By: HARTZSKY
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages.
No, I do NOT believe it because it is illogical and counter-intuitive. OTOH, if someone comes up with a logical explanation as to why this happens, I can change my mind in the blink of an eye.
The main thing to understand ..whether (apparently) true or not ...it probably doesn't make any difference in any way that you can measure it in terms of longevity. You don't have enough descendants.
MolaKule
Staff member
Just use some ARX in maintenance dose and don't worry about it.
There was a study done by the local smog testing company that new oil will poison your cat slightly faster than old oil. Something along the lines of some additives breaking down and evaporating in the first 1000 miles or so, then after that it stabilizes. I posted a link to it some time ago, maybe a search would find it.
Vilan,
The phosphorous additives make an initial boil-off and phosphorous is considered a "poison" to the catalitic converters.
The phosphorous additives make an initial boil-off and phosphorous is considered a "poison" to the catalitic converters.
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That's why I think that future (more strict) catalyst efficiency standards are going to be employed. Does it matter if you're passing more SM oil through your engine doing short OCI's or longer with SL? That is, it's sorta like extra strength TYLENOL. The SM are just taking lighter dose pills ..they're still taking them too often. Or rather, since people are taking them too often (not getting the OEM drain intervals out of oils) that they're lightening the dose so they don't hurt their liver.
Originally Posted By: MojaveK20
I was making a funny
For us old farts you need to put in something that gives us a clue.
You have to remember that we are considered the "read" for folks to get info on oil. A lot of them don't post just quote this board.
Sadly, a lot of what is posted here now is just B. S. with no data or facts.
Marketing works...
Take care, bill
I was making a funny
For us old farts you need to put in something that gives us a clue.
You have to remember that we are considered the "read" for folks to get info on oil. A lot of them don't post just quote this board.
Sadly, a lot of what is posted here now is just B. S. with no data or facts.
Marketing works...
Take care, bill
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. ...
Frank D
And here I have to respectfully disagree. Oil is like dishwater. It's ability to perform remains stable and sufficient, flat if you will, through a long period of time, and then start to fail as the additives are finally exhausted. As long as the filter is doing its job, the TBN is acceptable, and the rest of the add pack is online, the 3-5k oil is just as good as the new stuff.
... Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. ...
Frank D
And here I have to respectfully disagree. Oil is like dishwater. It's ability to perform remains stable and sufficient, flat if you will, through a long period of time, and then start to fail as the additives are finally exhausted. As long as the filter is doing its job, the TBN is acceptable, and the rest of the add pack is online, the 3-5k oil is just as good as the new stuff.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. ...
Frank D
And here I have to respectfully disagree. Oil is like dishwater. It's ability to perform remains stable and sufficient, flat if you will, through a long period of time, and then start to fail as the additives are finally exhausted. As long as the filter is doing its job, the TBN is acceptable, and the rest of the add pack is online, the 3-5k oil is just as good as the new stuff.
I am soory, I have to disagree with you there.
I do not think oil stays the same for x amount of miles then all of a sudden, BAM its bad.
Oil, as soon as it is put into use, starts to degrade. It gradualy loses its effectiveness. Look at UOAs, you can see oil from 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, ect. . . . pending on the brand, the oil losses additives, and gains wear metals at a very steady rate. Pending on the quality of oil it wears quick or slow.
there comes a point in the oils decline where it is no longer "working".
Every car owner has this question to ask them selfs: How close to that point do I want to get?
It is a persons personal opinion for when that time is. I talk more about who I am voteing for than my OCI!!!!
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... Granted the 3-5000 mile oil might have plenty of more useable life to it, but the new clean oil is better. ...
Frank D
And here I have to respectfully disagree. Oil is like dishwater. It's ability to perform remains stable and sufficient, flat if you will, through a long period of time, and then start to fail as the additives are finally exhausted. As long as the filter is doing its job, the TBN is acceptable, and the rest of the add pack is online, the 3-5k oil is just as good as the new stuff.
I am soory, I have to disagree with you there.
I do not think oil stays the same for x amount of miles then all of a sudden, BAM its bad.
Oil, as soon as it is put into use, starts to degrade. It gradualy loses its effectiveness. Look at UOAs, you can see oil from 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, ect. . . . pending on the brand, the oil losses additives, and gains wear metals at a very steady rate. Pending on the quality of oil it wears quick or slow.
there comes a point in the oils decline where it is no longer "working".
Every car owner has this question to ask them selfs: How close to that point do I want to get?
It is a persons personal opinion for when that time is. I talk more about who I am voteing for than my OCI!!!!
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