CJ -4 oil zinc levels

[oddrodtodd]

I've noticed that CJ-4 standards seem to call for lower levels of zinc. I'm currently using Delo 400 in my late '99 PowerStroke. Zinc works well-we all know this. Are they figuring out ways to counter the reduced zinc levels and still retain the extreme pressure characteristics that zinc was (is) so good at?

Todd

 

[river_rat]

Some newer oils are adding borates and/or new molybdenum compounds. Others are (to my understanding) improving base oil stock characteristics so they can get by with less ZDDP.
Mainly, the wear, if any, shows on the cam and solid--non-roller lifters, and the new ILSAC GF-4 standars that SM oils "meet or exceed" actually allows less cam lobe wear on solid lifters systems than the GF-3 standard of the last batch of oils.
Having said all that, there has been some problems with high lift, high performance cams using the old style solid non roller lifters...at least during the break-in period.
Some of these users put in small amounts of aftermarket break in additives to boost ZDDP levels.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[opposite_locker]

Delo 400 Multigrade 15w40 has higher levels of zinc than the Delo 400 LE 15w40. We use the multigrade in all of our farm equipment.

 

[Cyprs]

ORT, It has been explained in here to me that because CJ-4 oils have less ash then these CJ oils have less zinc washed off engine parts, thus these oils now do not require as much zinc. I am old school and dont change ways easily.

I live in a rural area where I have access to lots of CI-4/SL oils, In fact there is a Canadian Oil Company called BOSS OIL, main office is Calgary, they sell oil in northern U.S. also.

I also get XD3 0-30 CI-4/SL at UFA under the lable of Polar Plus, dont know how long that will last.

Boss sells about 5 CI-4 or CI-4plus /SL oils, only thier conventional oils are still CI-4 oils, they do sell one conventional oil called CJ-4 Extreme, this is the only oil company I can find who still sells majority CI-4 oils specifically for heavy duty industrial usage.

My favorite, BOSS BLUE RAM 15-40 CI-4/SL conventional, 14 TBN,(this is not a weak oil) -42F pour point (I believe Boss had to have removed the wax from this conventional oil to achieve that stellar pour point) This oil is dark blue, great long haul hard working interval oil. The best part? It sells for $3.50 Canadian per litre, same price as any run of mill HDEO sold in Canada. Another thing I like is that Boss air injects all additives rather than heat and stir them in.

http://www.bosslubricants.com nice site, great spec sheets, lots of choices in SM, CJ-4/SM syns and CI-4/SL in conv choices. This is a real haven for guys who still want the old school CI-4 oils, Boss specifically caters to CI-4 production in 85%+ of their 15-40 oil operation, OIL HEAVEN for me in these uncertain days of CJ-4 oils, check out BOSS, it may be sold in your area. I have talked to their oil tech fella too, good guy, helpful.

I continuously give BOSS positive feed back on keeping with the old C-4/SL oil production, I only buy my oil from Boss now other than UFA 0-30 Polar Plus (XD3)CI-4/SL for my X-trail) I fully appreciate Boss, I would have a tough go finding another source of CI-4 oil without Boss.

Cyprs

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: opposite_locker
Delo 400 Multigrade 15w40 has higher levels of zinc than the Delo 400 LE 15w40. We use the multigrade in all of our farm equipment.


Only about 150 ppm more.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Cyprs
ORT, It has been explained in here to me that because CJ-4 oils have less ash then these CJ oils have less zinc washed off engine parts, thus these oils now do not require as much zinc. I am old school and dont change ways easily.


It is not being reduced because it is not needed, ZDDP is hard on DPF and Cat life so manufacturers are having it scaled back. The higher spec oil just substitutes a more expensive additive to get the wear resistance back, this is reflected in the higher standard wear specs demanded by the higher letter specification.

Where are you getting your boss oil at $3.50/L? Is it the syn blend?

 

[wileyE]

They way you counter the reduced level of zinc is to reduce the level of competing detergent adds, which is exactly what the oil companys have done. The balance remains correct and the oil gives as good of protection. More to oil than just zinc.


Originally Posted By: oddrodtodd
I've noticed that CJ-4 standards seem to call for lower levels of zinc. I'm currently using Delo 400 in my late '99 PowerStroke. Zinc works well-we all know this. Are they figuring out ways to counter the reduced zinc levels and still retain the extreme pressure characteristics that zinc was (is) so good at?

Todd

 

[Cup of Joe]

A slight correction the limit is on Phosphorous and ash, not zinc. Since they cannot limit phosphorous without limiting zinc in ZDDP both are reduced.

http://www.apicj-4.org/performance_specs.html

 

[Ken2]

Keep in mind the real reason ZDDP (zinc phosphate compounds) is used in engine oil...this are the cheapest highly effective antiwear and antioxidant additives available. They work great and cost little. Other additives work as well or better but cost more. Reducing the ZDDP and adding borate, moly, and other compounds works great.

 

[Cyprs]

I am getting my Blue Ram 15-40 at my local Boss outlet Magnum Welding in Maple Creek, Sask. Blue Ram is listed on the Boss web site http://www.bosslubricants.ca as conventional and explained to me by the Boss Tech fella that it is full 100% Conventional oil. I can only assume and guess that Boss has to be removing some wax from this oil to achieve a pour point of -42. I assume there must be some kind of synthetic process done on this oil to meet that pour point, possibly it some how falls short of being classified as syn oil in other ways, I have no idea how they are doing it, all specs can be seen on Boss web site.

I learned of this great 15-40 Boss Ram conventional oil when I learned that all Boss synthetic oil had switched over to CJ-4/SM, I needed the protection of CI-4 in my old Cummings and -40C or F cold starts in my climate. I then told the Boss Tech that I would NOT be buying Boss syn anymore and I would stick to Polar Plus UFA 0-40 (XD3) which still remains CI-4/SL. The Boss Tech then told me to effect of "why not try our Blue Ram 15-40 at -42C pour point" I am trying it out this winter, at $3.50 per litre it sure beats nearly $7.00 per litre now for XD3 syn at UFA, the TBN of 14 in Ram is nice too, I think my old Cummins will like this stuff. My brother in law runs 3 older John Deeres on his feed lot operation, he is running over 180 hours and figures he can go more, he is doing analysis soon on it.

Cyprs