CDI vs PI 3/8" Split Beam Decision

SubLGT said:
A Norbar micrometer style torque wrench will be good for at least 5000 cycles under normal conditions before a calibration check is recommended.

Click to expand...
Crazy you posted this haha! I just read that, and many other articles on their website. They are such an informative bunch. Really starting to dig them. Also, the mushroom head design, chemical resistance of the handle, included calibration certificate, and reported quality make Norbar a front-runner.

Now that I'm not limiting self to split beam designs, are there any other micrometers folks would suggest along with the Norbar units? These seem ideal, though, for the 10-37.5 ft-lb range.

@Trav Do you know if Norbar USA does recalibration and service on the units, and how much it costs per chance? I understand if not. Just ding my due diligence. Probably gonna call them tomorrow.
 
SubLGT said:
Yes they do, in the USA.

Torque Calibration

Users of torque equipment all over the world are realising the importance of calibration in maintaining traceability and quality of operations.
www.norbarusa.com
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Thank you SubLGT! I read through a bunch of the pages on their website, but didn't see that one. Seems like a great company to do business with.
 
The 3rd generation owner of Precision Instruments is participating in a thread from 2020, linked below. He states that dial type torque wrenches maintain their calibration much longer than the other types, "virtually forever". But he does not say anything about calibration stability of split beam vs micrometer style.

Good consistent Torque wrench?

Hey everyone, I'm needing a torque wrench that will cover 15, 30 and 55 ft/lbs. mainly for 5th axis rockloc system and tightening Orange vise. If I can I rather have one wrench do it all. What do you guys recommend.
www.practicalmachinist.com

I have a Snap-on dial type torque wrench (0-50 ft-lb) I bought new 50 years ago. It has a "TE" prefix on the model number, indicating it was manufactured by PI. I have used it very infrequently, and the chrome still looks near new, but the plastic lens has yellowed and shrunken a bit. I am feeling pretty confident it is still in calibration.
 
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Trav said:
For that range I would suggest the Norbar pro 50. This is without a doubt the nicest TW on the market.

A Couple of Nice Torque Wrenches

With more and more engines being made from all aluminum a good lower value and accurate torque wrench is almost a must have tool. We read about all the Icon and other brands that are in the $100 range, these tools have no replacement parts or service available for them. The first one here is a...
bobistheoilguy.com

www.totalcycling.com

Norbar 15002 Professional Torque Wrench - 10-50 Nm 3/8 Inch Drive TotalCycling.com

This updated Professional Torque Wrench has been re-engineered to be even more accurate, durable and easy to use. The square drive features a finger grip on the top ('mushroom' head) that assists with running down the nut until resistance is m .... £157.55.Free P & P.
www.totalcycling.com

That one is a mushroom head which is fine, this one is the same tool with a reversible Facom ratchet head, not worth the extra money IMO.

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To late to edit but I should have said one of the nicest not the nicest although for this type of tool it is or comes darn close.
I have accumulated a few over the years and they have all been great. Some large and some very small, they are for different jobs and I like working with quality tools. Some of the ones from Taiwan have come a long way too and should not be disqualified based on nothing more than COO.

What I like about using the mushroom/through style head is you can insert a different size coupler without adding an adapter.

www.kctool.com

Hazet 6413-2 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/4" Coupler

Hazet Tools 6413-2 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/4" Coupler - high quality German engineering at the lowest price. Free same day shipping available.
www.kctool.com www.kctool.com

www.kctool.com

Hazet 6413-4 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/2" Coupler

Hazet Tools 6413-4 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/2" Coupler - high quality German engineering at the lowest price. Free same day shipping available.
www.kctool.com www.kctool.com
 
Trav said:
To late to edit but I should have said one of the nicest not the nicest although for this type of tool it is or comes darn close.
I have accumulated a few over the years and they have all been great. Some large and some very small, they are for different jobs and I like working with quality tools. Some of the ones from Taiwan have come a long way too and should not be disqualified based on nothing more than COO.

What I like about using the mushroom/through style head is you can insert a different size coupler without adding an adapter.

www.kctool.com

Hazet 6413-2 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/4" Coupler

Hazet Tools 6413-2 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/4" Coupler - high quality German engineering at the lowest price. Free same day shipping available.
www.kctool.com www.kctool.com

www.kctool.com

Hazet 6413-4 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/2" Coupler

Hazet Tools 6413-4 Sliding square 3/8" - 1/2" Coupler - high quality German engineering at the lowest price. Free same day shipping available.
www.kctool.com www.kctool.com
Click to expand...
I really dig the mushroom head and its functionality, though I'm unsure I'd ever need a 1/2" at 10-37.5 ft-lb. I found a demo of the Pro 50 last night that showed how you can insert the mushroom head in the other direction so that the TW can be used for left-hand threes. I'd never need that, but it was col that they thought of this.

@Trav what are your thoughts about the Pro 50 vs the CDI and PI 10-50 ft-lb split beams torque wenches? Would the flex heads be of more benefit? Is there any reason one should consider the Norbar over those units? From digging into this as much as I can, it really comes down to these three units. No other affordable and high quality split beam units cover that 10-50 area. Micrometers from other manufacturers seem to cover the 10-80 ft-lb range or 20-200 in-lb range. So, it appears I've narrowed it down to these three units. I started out looking at Tekton micrometers, but am not sure they have the quality of the Norbar, CDI or PI units. I also looked at the Tekton/Icon split beams, but again, they don't cover the low range.

Just lookin from some final reasoning from you, or anyone else who wants to chime in, on Norbar micrometer vs CDI or PI split beam for low-range torquing (10-37.5 vs 10-50 ft-lb). Thanks all!
 
SubLGT said:
Two less expensive Norbars to consider:

drpd.cc

Norbar TTi50 3/8" Ratcheting Torque Wrench, 10-50 Nm (13841)

Shop the world's finest tools from elite brands like PB Swiss, nepros, KTC, KNIPEX, Ko-ken and more..
drpd.cc drpd.cc

drpd.cc

Norbar NorTorque 60 3/8" Ratcheting Torque Wrench, 12-60 Nm (130101)

Shop the world's finest tools from elite brands like PB Swiss, nepros, KTC, KNIPEX, Ko-ken and more..
drpd.cc drpd.cc
Click to expand...
Honestly, the link Trav posted for the Pro 50 has that unit for so low that it's the same as the units you just posted. Leaning heavily toward Norbar Pro 50, but am still struggling to shake the idea of the split beam style being the better design since I read that over and over before the replies to this thread mentioned the Norbar unit. Something about Norbar makes me think they are sticklers for detail, and I like that in a tool manufacturer (or any manufacturer, rather).
 
skeptastic said:
Honestly, the link Trav posted for the Pro 50 has that unit for so low that it's the same as the units you just posted.....
Click to expand...
That price from the UK bike store is definitely a bargain. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it. Amazon Global Store had some very good prices on Norbar wrenches 2 years ago, but that no longer seems to be true. At that time, I bought a Norbar NorTorque-60 for $103. DRPD currently sells it for $164 and Amazon has it for $184.
 
The Norbar is very accurate for a clicker style and by all accounts holds it accuracy a long time. Like all clickers it needs to be reset to zero/Halt before being put away for the day but Norbar does not require as many turns to do this so it is not real issue, the numbers are large and easy to see in the window. For a tool in this range you cant go wrong, I highly recommend it.
The one I posted is the one I bought, they shipped it quickly and well packaged, it arrived in perfect condition, the price for the pro was the best I found.
 
I just ordered the Norbar! I called and spoke to a rep from Norbar USA in Ohio, and they do calibration on that unit for $52, which includes a certificate. They also do repairs. The easy to see window is a huge selling point as well, the more I've looked the various wrenches over. This unit is also a bit shorter in length at 15" than the split beams, which will be better for working under the car on my back. The 5,000 cycles statement by Norbar in their literature as well as the +/-3% calibration and the recommendations from you all tipped the scales. I've found something that gives me pause with every wrench until this one. I also feel like the range being narrower (10-37.5 ft-lb) means it's more likely to work well across the range, versus something like a 10-80 or 20-100.

Thanks for all of your help guys! I really appreciate it. Ended up being $175 shipped including a $5 off coupon from Total Cycling.
 
SubLGT said:
I was past the 90 day warranty, so did not send it back to PI. Also, I only had a suspicion it was not in calibration, but no solid proof. I had around 40-50 cycles on it (some near the max of 600 in-lb) before sending it out to Team Torque in North Dakota for a calibration check. My near new PI 250 ft-lb split beam was even worse, it had an error of +12% at 50 ft-lb. Team Torque did a good job of recalibrating both wrenches, and got the maximum error down to +1.2% and +1.0% for the two wrenches.

www.teamtorque.com

Accredited Calibration Services | A2LA & ISO 17025 Certified | Team Torque Inc.

Learn how to get your torque tools calibrated and serviced by Team Torque! We take pride in our certified accreditation to ISO 17025 through A2LA.
www.teamtorque.com
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How much did they charge you?

Team Torque thoroughly molested one of my torque wrenches; it arguably came back more broken than when I sent it in. I ended up sending it to Snap-On and they performed a full rebuild for the flat rate repair fee. Granted, this incident occurred a few years ago, but I am still a bit sour about the matter.
 
The Critic said:
How much did they charge you?
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They charged $44 to check calibration (includes cost of return shipping and a certificate ). Adjustment and recalibration cost an additional $49.50

They did some minor repairs and a calibration on my pair of 45-50 year old Snap-on torque wrenches. I have had good experiences with them.
 
It makes me wonder how accurate their initial testing was, SubLGT had 2 PI that were out on brand new PI. One okay, it happens but 2 sort of says PI is not testing these at all which because they include the serial number does not sound right for a company with such a good reputation.
 
Trav said:
The Norbar is very accurate for a clicker style and by all accounts holds it accuracy a long time. Like all clickers it needs to be reset to zero/Halt before being put away for the day.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, Norbar says this:

Although considered by some to be good practice, extensive testing has clearly shown that unwinding a Norbar torque wrench to its minimum setting, hence relaxing the spring between uses, has no effect upon the wrench calibration.
However, if left for a long period of time without use, it is desirable to reduce the setting to the minimum scale value (often 20% of the maximum). The tool should never be adjusted to zero because this can adversely affect the calibration of the wrench.
Click to expand...

And this:

If the torque wrench has not been used for a day, it should be exercised about five times before use to redistribute any grease that had dried up or been squeezed out.
Click to expand...


 
SubLGT said:
Interestingly, Norbar says this:



And this:




Click to expand...
Yep, I read that yesterday! I took it as them saying the unwinding isn't an issue for shops since they use these tools every day. For us weekend warriors who might use the TW 2-4 times per year, it can be better to wind it down. Still, they did say it wasn't much of an issue. Also makes me think they may just have really solid build quality. Can't be sure, but it was enough to inspire additional confidence in their product. I love how much info they provide on their website.
 
I have both kinds of TW, both US brands, and the norbar pro shown here. I learned that it will only torque in one direction. If that matters.
 
I love torque wrench discussions and have followed many at the GarageJournal tool forum over the years. I have done my fair share of analysis paralysis investigations (of any purchase) where you easily get down to 2 or 3 excellent choices, but then micro investigate those choices until you hit an impasse. In my case, the final decision usually is an emotional one vs. factual. My investigation turns into validating what I "feel" is best by finding enough internet support to support my choice. The truth hurts.

I always go back to my engineer forum investigations where it is repeated that torque measurement is VERY crude with +/- 20-30% error due to all the variables. While I love a dependable, consistent, well made tool like everyone else (more so for pros), loosing sleep over +/- 1-2% stated accuracy differences between different wrenches seems pointless.

https://www.surebolt.com/torque_errors.htm "Torque wrenches are usually safe if all you need is plus or minus 30% in bolt tension. Some engineers will say they are good enough for plus or minus 20%. Flange bolt tensions can vary even more, no matter what bolting sequence is used. See actual case study."

It IS helpful to be able to put Norbar on the list of credible, affordable quality torque wrenches. Thanks for those here for that input. I have 2 PI split beam wrenches and a Snap-On electronic inch lb. wrench in my drawer that serve me well. No regrets. Oh, and my original Craftsman beam wrenches from 40 years ago, LOL.
 
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