I am responsible for a fairly large fleet of vehicles that includes tractors, diesel mowers, cars and pickups. In the time I have worked where I am, I went from being the mechanic to the overall maintenance supervisor. During this time, I have only witnessed one catastrophic engine failure. The failure was a 28 hp Kubota diesel in a grasshopper mower. The cause of the failure was a scored cylinder and a blown head gasket. My original thought was that the engine failed due to inadequate cooling leading to the engine running too hot. Luckily the engine was replaced under warranty, but it still makes me wonder if oil degradation could have contributed to the failure. Kubota has upped there OCI to 200 hours in most of their engines now, but I am not comfortable with that amount of time. Looking at oil on the dipstick,(we run fleet 15w40)the oil appears diluted when it gets close to the change interval. Since I have to set policy for when our vehicles get serviced and make sure the mechanic does this on time it makes me wonder how important this is. We have numerous Kubota RTV 1100 that have a 3 cylinder diesel engine and over time I notice that they don't start without glow plugs even when temps are over 50 F which makes me think compression is being compromised. Poor maintenance is no excuse for engine failures and engines wearing out prematurely costs a lot of money to rectify. Any thoughts?
Can Oil Selection Prevent Catastrophic Failure
- Thread starter nuffsaid
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Even the best synthetic oil can't prevent an engine from "blowing".
It may prolong the "death", but as heat builds things start to go. Once the head gasket lets go, well, "blown" engine.
Coolant and maintenance combined with a cheap oil that meets spec is going to keep an engine running strong, especially in hot running yard equipment.
It may prolong the "death", but as heat builds things start to go. Once the head gasket lets go, well, "blown" engine.
Coolant and maintenance combined with a cheap oil that meets spec is going to keep an engine running strong, especially in hot running yard equipment.
Originally Posted By: nuffsaid
Any thoughts?
Yeah. There's a difference between being a maintenance supervisor, and building a good PM program; supposition shouldn't be part of it.
"my original thought"
"makes me wonder"
"I am not comfortable"
"appears diluted"
"makes me think"
Demand data/fact to eliminate the guesswork from your language.
Any thoughts?
Yeah. There's a difference between being a maintenance supervisor, and building a good PM program; supposition shouldn't be part of it.
"my original thought"
"makes me wonder"
"I am not comfortable"
"appears diluted"
"makes me think"
Demand data/fact to eliminate the guesswork from your language.
Part of my dilemma is when I catch my mechanic not following my PM guidelines, how likely is it that damage is being done and should I take disciplinary action. My thought has always been to air on the side of caution and when in doubt, change fluids. But when oil samples show that oil is good to a much longer life than originally thought, how could you accuse someone of damaging equipment by going over the recommended change interval. And when a company like Kubota come out and changes their OCI to 200 hours when it used to be 100 hours, what is a person to think. Are their engines really that good? Then look at a company like Subaru, I bought my wife a 2014 Outback that had a 7500 mile OCI, then I bought my wife a 2015 and now the same engine has a 6000 mile OCI with 0-20W synthetic oil, it makes no good sense. What I am really questioning is if my PM schedule is realistic or if I am wasting money changing oil too frequently.
Fleet operators I've spoken to in the last few years all just follow manufacturer's recommendations so when something goes wrong they don't get fired.
Here on bitog, we might say you could double your manufacturer's OCI if you just used Rotella T6 synthetic (change oil filter only every recommended OCI, and actually change oil every other recommended OCI).
Here on bitog, we might say you could double your manufacturer's OCI if you just used Rotella T6 synthetic (change oil filter only every recommended OCI, and actually change oil every other recommended OCI).
Originally Posted By: nuffsaid
What I am really questioning is if my PM schedule is realistic or if I am wasting money changing oil too frequently.
There's one way to find this out, and speculation on a forum by people who aren't intimately familiar with that fleet isn't going to get you any closer to a productive answer.
What I am really questioning is if my PM schedule is realistic or if I am wasting money changing oil too frequently.
There's one way to find this out, and speculation on a forum by people who aren't intimately familiar with that fleet isn't going to get you any closer to a productive answer.
What does your UOA tell you?
When I was a maintenance supervisor from 1993-1999 we had a small group of Volvo and CAT wheel loaders with a 966 being the largest. As I recall we were doing oil changes at 250 hours. Don't ever recall a failed engine, or at least one that surprised us. We always knew when things were getting tired and had them planned out a year before taking them out of service for a rebuild. It was always the linkages, buckets Transmissions never get us a bit of problems. For the 13 years at that plant I don't ever recall doing a transmission. One of those machines got us 15-20 years of service, with 4,000 hrs/year average. We did a couple engine rebuilds over that time, all in-house. Fuel injector rebuilds were subbed out.
The operators pounded on those machines for 12 hours at a crack. And if the back up machine was down for service, they'd go until it was ready. It was pretty rare to have a backup loader out of service for more than a day. We did UOA's back then too as they were pretty cheap. Those certainly helped. Mobil Delvac was what we used. Don't remember the weight. My primary loader mechanic loved those machines and he's be howling if a machine exceeded 250 hours. He treated those like his own kin. He always had the spare engine rebuilt and ready to go. To answer the OP's question, I don't think an oil brand alone is going to make a huge difference.
The operators pounded on those machines for 12 hours at a crack. And if the back up machine was down for service, they'd go until it was ready. It was pretty rare to have a backup loader out of service for more than a day. We did UOA's back then too as they were pretty cheap. Those certainly helped. Mobil Delvac was what we used. Don't remember the weight. My primary loader mechanic loved those machines and he's be howling if a machine exceeded 250 hours. He treated those like his own kin. He always had the spare engine rebuilt and ready to go. To answer the OP's question, I don't think an oil brand alone is going to make a huge difference.
Virgin UOA and UOAs to establish OCI will answer many of your questions. There may be a better oil for you.
As far as the MX personnel not changing on time - perhaps a weekly check by the shop foreman or yourself is in order, to schedule oil changes for that week. Obviously the mechanics aren't keeping track; so then you assign the task. Excepting an emergency disciplinary action would follow if changes not performed as assigned.
As far as the MX personnel not changing on time - perhaps a weekly check by the shop foreman or yourself is in order, to schedule oil changes for that week. Obviously the mechanics aren't keeping track; so then you assign the task. Excepting an emergency disciplinary action would follow if changes not performed as assigned.
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Change oil more frequently, or repair engines more frequently is usually a corporate tradeoff as all this stuff is abused by employees non-stop.
Also, the quickest way to do PM maintenance lists for piles of equipment is pull out the pen and tick everything off without doing any of the work, then going for a long smoke break.
Code the filters and hand them out to the staff, and verify the engine oil looks clean after the PM is done. Check it that day.
If it is clean, good. Next PM get them to hand back the coded filters, verify the random number to the numbers in your book, then you can start a clean slate regimen of checks and balances.
There are a lot of employees that would leave the filter on the equipment FOREVER, and if the engine blows, who would know it was because the filter was never changed etc.
A stupid employee will damage stuff from lack of knowledge. A knowledgeable employee will damage equipment because he will use his knowledge to his advantage to get away with doing as little work as possible, and say, "Oh well, tell Corporate we need a new unit".
Sadly, these guys need to be watched. That is why Bosses exist.
Unless the Bosses are lazy and intelligent, well, you are in deep trouble then.
Also, the quickest way to do PM maintenance lists for piles of equipment is pull out the pen and tick everything off without doing any of the work, then going for a long smoke break.
Code the filters and hand them out to the staff, and verify the engine oil looks clean after the PM is done. Check it that day.
If it is clean, good. Next PM get them to hand back the coded filters, verify the random number to the numbers in your book, then you can start a clean slate regimen of checks and balances.
There are a lot of employees that would leave the filter on the equipment FOREVER, and if the engine blows, who would know it was because the filter was never changed etc.
A stupid employee will damage stuff from lack of knowledge. A knowledgeable employee will damage equipment because he will use his knowledge to his advantage to get away with doing as little work as possible, and say, "Oh well, tell Corporate we need a new unit".
Sadly, these guys need to be watched. That is why Bosses exist.
Unless the Bosses are lazy and intelligent, well, you are in deep trouble then.
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