Called Fram tech about the C3P-C4P redesign, they know nothing

[sdowney717]

I am not happy. He looks it up, and can find no information on the c3, c4, c3p, c4p regarding any changes.
Fram is now making the 'p' version as pleated paper folds, versus the stacked plate paper design of the past, and the 'p' version no longer is enclosed in a perforated metal skin.
Decades ago, the pleated design was designed as full flow, the plate design was the bypass design originally from my experience with these filters going back decades of use.
Fram tech guy had no info on the change, and no info on any micron efficiency, beta ratios, absolutely nothing. Which contradicts the info they had when I had called them maybe 15 years ago and was told the stacked plate design filtered to 2 microns and was classed as a depth filter. Fram tech guy when I told him the info I gave them I got from them years ago, he stated that was not possible as they had no information and questioned if I knew how small a micron was and started talking about red blood cells and basically said it was ridiculous to worry about microns as they are so small. Then I said even Rock Auto listed the new C3P design at 5 microns, and he said well that did not come from us, maybe Rock Auto tested it themselves.???

So basically worthless tech support guy had no clue about anything. So since the c3 and c3p are now made the same way, I asked him what the difference between them is now, and he first said the c3 is stacked plate and the c3p is pleated folds, and when I said no way, he just said he knew nothing about the filters. I then suggested to him they are making them the same to save money. Fram guy also said both the c3-c4 and c3p-cp4 are bypass filters. And meet the engine manufacturers specs and are not inferior to the way they used to be made, they are better than how they were made before , and Fram would not make worse performing filters, and that was the end of the conversation.

Of course from what I know, they cant both by bypass filters!
The old look with plates and the new look with pleats for a C3p for example.
Last picture shows the original as specified design of stacked plates for these bypass filters.
Now if you go to WIX, it has the metal can, but microns are 32, so its a poor substitute for the original fram c3p-c4p.

 

[sdowney717]

Here is a link showing a 5 micron number on the new style c4p from Rock Auto, which Fram tech guy says did not come from them.
So then where did it come from??
https://www.rockauto.com/de/moreinfo.php?pk=55349

No way Rock Auto would have tested these filters, it must have come from Fram.
Difference between c3 and c4 filters, the c4 is 3/4 inch longer.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Yes that's what happens when your old people in a company get eliminate due to a buy out. Jay would like you give you the answer.

 

[sdowney717]

I did notice perhaps the ML1380 from 'Fil filter' looks more like the original c3p-c4p design.
If it has the original stacked plate design, then it might be a worthy replacement.
I just cant tell from this picture.
I have no experience with them, anyone know?
https://catalog.filfilter.com.tr/en/product/ML1380/5608


The average guy is not going to be thinking of how a filter is made or how well it filters.
Many filter companies made this size filter and it was used in thousands of engines over decades, both in euope and usa and military.
http://alvadi.ee/en/kataloog/varuosa/737532/25525

I did see Bosch discontinued it
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-1457429235-Oil-Filter-Element/dp/B004Z0VUIW

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by sdowney717
I did notice perhaps the ML1380 from 'Fil filter' looks more like the original c3p-c4p design.
If it has the original stacked plate design, then it might be a worthy replacement.


I always thought these were just packed SOLID full of cotton?

 

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by sdowney717
I did notice perhaps the ML1380 from 'Fil filter' looks more like the original c3p-c4p design.
If it has the original stacked plate design, then it might be a worthy replacement.


I always thought these were just packed SOLID full of cotton?


Some were. some looked like a sock full of cotton fiber.

None of these have any cotton. These used to have thick paper plates stacked horizontally.
The LF9028 made for Cummins Filtration, has 2 filters in one body. A pleated element, and a bypass element made of stacked plates, so c3p used to be very similar functionality regarding the bypass functions, today not so clear how good or bad the redesign is.
Read about stacked plates bypass media here.
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/s...roduct_lit/emea_brochures/LI36043-GB.pdf

Makes me wonder if some corporate officers made some money deals, maybe sold stacked plate patents to another company.
Of course the end user is now the poorer for it. And many have not a clue whats happened to their filters.

I bought the BD7317 Baldwin dual flow venturi filter for my Ram truck. Its a great filter, but may not be as good as the LF9028 which is twice the price. Advantage here of the combo filter, all the oil actually goes to the engine, there is no diversion back to the pan. And its all in one filter, the full and bypass functionality. I think this design should become more common seeing how good it is.

 

[red7404]

i have 2-4 of this. do you need some?

 

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by red7404
i have 2-4 of this. do you need some?

I bought 4 on ebay so I am good. 3 of my canisters used on my boat made in 1970 are called bleed stream in the manual (bypass) and are wider than the 8N cannister. The boats engines have full flow and bleed stream for each engine. Engines are original.

I also bought an 8N Ford tractor oil canister. I am converting to use a TP roll for a filter. And going to use it on a 2005 Ram truck with Cummins diesel. I have the details worked out and will start a thread on it when I get more of it done. I have found on the boat these filters last extremely long time, you know they are flowing when they get warm.

Discouraging the filter companies have abandoned bypass depth filters in this configuration, unless I am wrong. But I dont think so since the WIX cross lists their version of this filter at 32 microns. The best published micron was from Donaldson at 20 microns, but they also insist it is a full flow filter. If they could see my 4 oil filter canisters with the tiny pin hole in the center rod. No way are these housings setup for full flow filtration use.

 

[djfcars]

Sorry that I'm late to this but I had an interesting experience with the newer design C-4P filters. First, I always used the older version
filters until they changed to the newer ones with many, many more holes on the outside. My engine would always hold at 20lbs. pressure
at idle, hot. When I changed to the newer design, my pressure would drop to about 13-15lbs. I thought that when this first happened to me, something was going wrong with bearings or the pump or whatever else. I then put in a old design filter to see if it was the filter and the higher
pressure returned.

I wrote to Fram to see if they have had complaints about this, but they said that while it may be possible, the new filters are probably filtering more
oil because more oil is flowing through the filter quicker. this is on a 1943 Ford GPW jeep, 134 L head motor. So, if any of you folks notice a change
of pressure with the new design, your not seeing things, it's true! So my choices are probably down to 2. 1: Search for old NOS filters, or 2: live with the lower pressure with the new ones.

 

[Lubener]

I still use either the C3-P or Purolator's version on my Ford 1940 9N tractor. I haven't had any issues. I believe you can still get the metal version from a Ford/ New Holland tractor dealer.