Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters?

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In the past year I had three cartridge filters from the same manufacturer show significant media displacement upon removal, long before their service life had ended. The manufacturer sent them to a lab. I asked them to test the filter for efficiency. The lab used a Bubble Point test to check the integrity of the filter media. They sealed the filter on the top and bottom, connected pressurized air on one end and submerged it in oil. They applied 3" of water pressure and noted no bubbles and called it good. I have not found any information that this test could be used for an oil filter. Just a brief search on this test method, it can be used to calculate pore size of a filter, by increasing pressure until pubbles can be seen. I even sent them a new, unused filter, but they did not use it as a control. During the last six months they blamed me for damaging the filter when removing it from the cap. So I sent them a third filter still attached to the cap. They now speculate that I damaged the filter by inserting it in the cap. I sent them a Purolator filter of very similar design and media that I installed and removed several times and no damage to the filter. The manufacturer will not disclose the lab that conducted the test. Need this forum's experts to provide feedback on this test, the method they used. Attached are photos of the damaged filter and image of the test they performed. I will soon provide the full report but will not disclose the manufacturer at this time.

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Thanks, I found the same links on the first page of google. Many of the reference membrane filters used in other industries. I found info on this test with filter testing services. Seems to be just a pass/fail, not efficiency. I doubt the manufacturer or GM has specs on this test, and based on their report, they did not increase pressure in .5psi increments to determine the bubble point, pore size and location,or test a new filter to compare. They only brought it up to .1 psi or 3" of water. Looks like ISO 2942 may be the applicable test.
 
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Would it be easier to just change filter brands....? or is this is a mystery that just MUST get solved?
This company claims they produce the top oil and filters on the market, and they continue to speculate that I am unable to properly install or remove the filter, despite using three other filters from other manufacturers with no problems. I have used the canister filters for years, many of them made by Baldwin and WIx for them.
 
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I'm finding it hard to believe that Purolator/M&H cared enough about anything oil filter related to actually test them! Hengst seems to be the go-to for canister filters, they seem to have the best looking ones for Ecotec GM applications, I would think the others would be just as good-never seen a bad Hengst yet!
 
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I used to use Hengst in my GM when I could buy them "made in USA", but after using my stash up and could not find any "made in USA", I went with Wix and Bosch.
 
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This must be on something hugely expensive like a turbine or industrial machine where the utmost in reliability is needed.. Rod
 
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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
This must be on something hugely expensive like a turbine or industrial machine where the utmost in reliability is needed.. Rod
Nope, just a standard GM Ecotec 2.4L.
 
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I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that. If you are having repeated issues with one brand and no issues with others, the logical course of action is quite clear. Unless your detective psyche really must know the answer, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But I hope you get the answers you're seeking.
 
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Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.
They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media. From the two links I posted earlier: "There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test." "One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.
They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media. From the two links I posted earlier: "There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test." "One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."
ZeeOSix, neither of these companies have anything to do with oil filtration, one specializes in water filter and desalination, and the other wine and spirits filtration products.
 
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Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that. If you are having repeated issues with one brand and no issues with others, the logical course of action is quite clear. Unless your detective psyche really must know the answer, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But I hope you get the answers you're seeking.
So far I have only found reference to bubble tests in the water/alcohol and pharmaceutical industries. It is used to determine location and size of opening in a membrane filter. In a way it determines absolute efficiency, but is not a Three Pass Test used in transportation and hydraulic industries. These oil filters are not what I consider membrane filters. I agree 3" of water is .1 psi, which is next to nothing. So far this has cost me nothing except for my time replacing filters and sending them to the company in prepaid boxes. I have used their products for many years so I am giving them a chance to live up to their product warranty and do the right thing.
 
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
What is Reemay and what is the make of the filter? Media displacement means there was a thin spot?
I thought Reemay was a generic term for filter media backing, but apparently is Trademark product name by Dupont. REEMAY® spunbonded polyester is a sheet structure of continuous filament polyester fibers that are randomly arranged, highly dispersed, and bonded at the filament junctions. The chemical and thermal properties of REEMAY® are essentially those of polyester fiber, and the product's spunbonded structure further endows it with an extraordinary combination of physical properties which gives it ready application in many areas of the filtration industry. Among the distinctive characteristics of REEMAY® are high tensile and tear strength, non-raveling edges, excellent dimensional stability, no media migration, good chemical resistance, and controlled arrestance and permeability. REEMAY® is produced with either straight or crimped polyester fibers which give the various product styles different filtration and other general performance properties. Crimped fibers yield softness, conformability, and greater porosity; straight fibers yield stiffness, tighter structure, and finer arrestance. https://filters.kavonfilter.com/item/filter-paper/reemay-spunbonded-polyester-nonwovens/item-1110 I found a major contradiction. The company refers to the Reemay as the outside portion, it is used to support manufacture of the inner fiberglass filter, and has no bearing on the filter performance. The lab, as shown in the picture identifies the inner material as the Reemay and the outer loose material as fiberglass. The company and the lab cannot even get their terminology and design description correct. The reports says they found no holes in the fiberglass media. In another portion of the report the company said that neither the Reemay backing or the fiberglass media was compromised on either filter. They said the filters are in good condition and filtering properly yet provides no actual efficiency testing used by the manufacturer and performed no Particle Count analysis of the oil.
 
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Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.
They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media. From the two links I posted earlier: "There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test." "One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."
ZeeOSix, neither of these companies have anything to do with oil filtration, one specializes in water filter and desalination, and the other wine and spirits filtration products.
I never said or meant to implied they were associated with an oil filter company. But they seem to be a filter company that can do a bubble test, which is a test that can be done an any kind of filter to look for media integrity from what I'm gathering.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.
They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media. From the two links I posted earlier: "There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test." "One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."
ZeeOSix, neither of these companies have anything to do with oil filtration, one specializes in water filter and desalination, and the other wine and spirits filtration products.
I never said or meant to implied they were associated with an oil filter company. But they seem to be a filter company that can do a bubble test, which is a test that can be done an any kind of filter to look for media integrity from what I'm gathering.
Diffusion of air through a membrane filter to determine largest pore size or abnormal size, is not applicable to a filter with multiple layers of fiberglass and polyester, which I would consider more a depth filter. It appears they they started and stopped at .1 psi which may not even be enough to diffuse given the high viscosity of the oil compared to water or spirits. Based on what I read, the test requires gradual increase in pressure until bubbles are detected.
 
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